Don Catlin - Founder of UCLA Olympic Lab: 'Drug tests are easy to beat....very easy'

[JonesBones]

not even a jones fan.....i just think its messed up how someone failing a test gets them destroyed while almost everyone is violating the same policy and just keeps their mouth shut while their friends and co workers get crucified....

its a culture of lies and insanely disproportionate social stigma...

It is luddism and and puritanism. Same mentality as the war on drugs. I bet Novitsky is anal retentive. He's like the preacher from footloose who wants to outlaw dancing. Fuck their archaic moral code.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

-CS Lewis

 

[dim_]

Catlin has the same exact view as Diaz. They are all on it. We need to start listening to real experts instead of amateurs like Dimspace and his scooby do investigations.

yeh, this is the same Don Catlin that found multiple of Lance's samples with high testosterone ratios in the 90's and did fuck all. He could have stopped Lance in his tracks before he even started.

 

[JonesBones]

yeh, this is the same Don Catlin that found multiple of Lance's samples with high testosterone ratios in the 90's and did fuck all. He could have stopped Lance in his tracks before he even started.

Are you saying he is incompetent or shady? He came up with the CIR test. What have you done? Spreadsheets? I bet you masturbate over them.

 

[Rea_ctor]

ufc fighters don't make enough money to afford a multi million dollar doping program.

top level boxers are all dirty but they can afford the real shit, not crap you get from some nutritionist at your gym.

Mate what is the so called good stuff you talk of, I'm not a pro athlete so have dabbled in quite a lot from steroids, to peptides and Prohormones, what are these super Chemicals only boxers have?
Any fighter making over a million aka Jones can afford the good stuff, yet he pops for turinabol.

 

[Lockard The GOAT]

Hit the nail on the head. Drug testing is big business in the US.



Uh, cuz they test stuff. Like in Icarus, the main Russian doctor knows exactly how to beat the system.

So, he's tested every fighter and knows which ones are on something and which aren't?

No, he hasn't. it's just one guy's opinion that ya'll are taking as absolute. Just because he comes from a field of expertise doesn't disqualify him as talking out of his ass.

 

[egk]

Catlin has the same exact view as Diaz. They are all on it. We need to start listening to real experts instead of amateurs like Dimspace and his scooby do investigations.

Dimspace is good with the drug testing rules and such but he's as biased as other fanboys depending on the particular fighters being talked about. I believe he's said before that USADA is only catching a fraction of those using PEDs. I agree with him that trying to stop drug cheats is still a good thing.

I'm just getting uncomfortable with things I see regarding USADA. Novitsky comes off too much like an attention whore. The UFC is now a sport lacking stars with two bald guys who don't fight competing to be the face of it.

 

[JSN]

Good points, but he failed a weigh-in piss test. He's been passing those for 9 years. It makes no sense he would use Turinabol in the first place and use it when he knows he's getting tested. It's an old, shit drug. Passes random tests, both blood and urine. I'm curious how this plays out.

don't buy Jones' team's narrative. TBol is not a shit drug and it is something athletes continue to use.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

just saying

 

[egk]

what youre failing to account for is retroactive testing (samples can be kept an re-analysed for up to ten years)

sure, at the 2008 and 2012 olympics they didnt catch that many people

but guess what, in 2016 they caught 100 people in retroactive testing from those two olympics, including a shit ton of medallists

so you need to factor that in..

Why do we need to factor that in? So what if tests 10 or 20 or more years later say someone cheated? They got their glory and money from competing dirty. No one cares by then and they can still claim the tests were tampered with or contaminated. It's just a small bi-line.

 

[dim_]

Why do we need to factor that in? So what if tests 10 or 20 or more years later say someone cheated? They got their glory and money from competing dirty. No one cares by then and they can still claim the tests were tampered with or contaminated. It's just a small bi-line.

try 4 years later.

and thats enough to stop their career then and there

 

[NoContest]

Cool documentary but it ended up missing its mark. We only found out in great detail how all those Russian athletes did it. We didn't find out how Armstrong and everyone else did it.

 

[egk]

try 4 years later.

and thats enough to stop their career then and there

Who have they stopped from competing in the Olympics?

 

[dim_]

Who have they stopped from competing in the Olympics?

a shit ton of russians, ukranians, bellarusians, khazak's etc in rio following the turinabol retests

 

[egk]

a shit ton of russians in rio

"A shit ton" that no one ever heard of. So now those who are still cheating and beating the tests won't have those pesky ruskies to worry about anymore.

Tygart wanted a blanket ban of Russia. It became a political football and the IOC wouldn't do it.

 

[Shaddows]

Its not catch-up. There is no guarantee that the technology to test for a designer steroid will ever exist. There is no guarantee that the tests will be sensitive enough to catch micro-dosers after a couple of hours. Theres no guarantee that if a breakthrough happens tomorrow, that a new protocol/designer PED wont be out the next day that may never be detectable.

As far as athletes dying from experimental drugs goes, theres a simple solution:

This is gonna sound crazy but do away with the prohibition on PEDs and let athletes be honest and open about drug use under the supervision of a physician with PEDs from labs with high safety standards.

1)Athletes would be using safer, medical grade PEDs.

2)A physician would be more readily available to help with side effects and Post-cycle therapy.

3)The athlete would be able to minimize any health risk while not having to lie.

Pretending we can catch them, that its only the few who get caught, or that the ones who pass the test are natty is only making a culture of deceit worse and worse while not 'cleaning up' sports at all.

1) No. Athletes would still use whatever they have available and whatever they can afford.
2) Again, no. No physician can tell you the effect of the drug you will use like that. there will be always new drugs and medicine will run behind, trying to assess the benefits and the damage it causes. Besides, PED is already known of having nasty effects on their bodies.
3) no. the sport would be dominated by those who can afford better drugs, widening the gap between the best drug user and the "natty" ones.

Overall, you would be simply killing the sport.
The fact they can't catch all users is known. but the athlete passport coupled with the punishment of the cheaters that get caught should work as a warning to anyone willing to use those banned substances.

 

[opie]

Mate what is the so called good stuff you talk of, I'm not a pro athlete so have dabbled in quite a lot from steroids, to peptides and Prohormones, what are these super Chemicals only boxers have?
Any fighter making over a million aka Jones can afford the good stuff, yet he pops for turinabol.

remember balco? designer steroids nobody knew about. that is guaranteed still going on.

also full on blood doping.

not only boxers have them, only high paid real athletes have them. cyclists, soccer players, nba, nfl, olympic athletes, etc.

mma is not in that circle yet.

nobody is clean in any sport.

 

[brian]

USADA with the ufc;

- Test randomly
- Test for many illegal substances
- Test 10+ times for the year & more if you're active
- UFC doesn't let fighters even use iv's to rehydrate
- USADA also test for TE ratios, even if they fail to find a particular banned substance you can still get caught for having unbalanced TE ratios.

^^^ All in all USADA with the UFC is the hardest drug test to beat & that documentary wasn't testing the UFC. USADA also test track & field & go look at how much more injuries are happening in that sport & 100m sprinters barely breaking 10seconds anymore, USADA has improved and preventing ped use better than ever before.

 

[JSN]

Cool documentary but it ended up missing its mark. We only found out in great detail how all those Russian athletes did it. We didn't find out how Armstrong and everyone else did it.

that's generally well known. they used EPO earlier and when new tests arose they went to blood doping. brought it in refrigerated pannier on motorcycles.

 

[NoContest]

that's generally well known. they used EPO earlier and when new tests arose they went to blood doping. brought it in refrigerated pannier on motorcycles.

Oh ok that's cool, I had no idea.

 

[giusti825]

what youre failing to account for is retroactive testing (samples can be kept an re-analysed for up to ten years)

sure, at the 2008 and 2012 olympics they didnt catch that many people

but guess what, in 2016 they caught 100 people in retroactive testing from those two olympics, including a shit ton of medallists

so you need to factor that in..

When i hear 'retroactive testing' i hear the truth:

Anti-doping is selling sports organizers services that they do not have yet and may never have in the future.

Retroactive testing is stupid. So 20 years after someone retires, they're going to drag a champions name through the mud, people might try to sue....for what?

The athlete has already had the year as champ, all the money, the fame.....why try to retroactively take that all away just to give it to the #2 guy who was just on a different protocol.....

If anti-doping doesn't have the abilility to accurately determine who is using PEDs now, and they are selling PED testing now, then they are selling snake oil....