Don’t Build Your BJJ Game on White Belt Techniques. (Stephan kesting)

I think a lot of you are sleeping on the Americana a little. I'm not going to argue that it is a high percentage finishing technique, but at the same time anything that forces an opponent to move in limited and predictable motions from an inferior position has some value. While it isn't as versatile as the Kimura in terms of a positional system, there is still a lot you can attack/transition and combo to and from the Americana.
 
I think a lot of you are sleeping on the Americana a little. I'm not going to argue that it is a high percentage finishing technique, but at the same time anything that forces an opponent to move in limited and predictable motions from an inferior position has some value. While it isn't as versatile as the Kimura in terms of a positional system, there is still a lot you can attack/transition and combo to and from the Americana.

Yeah, and let's not forget that Jon Jones finished Vitor Belfort with an Americana, showing that it works on the biggest stages.
 
no they wont, you really have to suck to be caught in one, or be dead tired and not be able to defend anymore, or may be the guy on top of you is just too strong and has too much size and strenght on you and he can muscle you to the position, but under regular circumstances, americanas are really really low% moves.

Yep, don't let them get the grip while your arm is in the position (against the ground bent at the elbow in a right angle) and you are fine. I've been doing BJJ for only three weeks and despite being a 165 pounder I've yet to be subbed by this lock despite it being the main submission we've been working on. Its clearly a strength/leverage move that works only really with massive strength differences. (As seen in jones vs belfort).
 
Yep, don't let them get the grip while your arm is in the position (against the ground bent at the elbow in a right angle) and you are fine. I've been doing BJJ for only three weeks and despite being a 165 pounder I've yet to be subbed by this lock despite it being the main submission we've been working on. Its clearly a strength/leverage move that works only really with massive strength differences. (As seen in jones vs belfort).

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Yep, don't let them get the grip while your arm is in the position (against the ground bent at the elbow in a right angle) and you are fine. I've been doing BJJ for only three weeks and despite being a 165 pounder I've yet to be subbed by this lock despite it being the main submission we've been working on. Its clearly a strength/leverage move that works only really with massive strength differences. (As seen in jones vs belfort).


Vitor was fucked Up from betting beat up nad was caught off guard.

Yo u wanna play smart ass? When I said you need strength to do it is not to actually pull the sub, but to get the set up, the arm fully bent and figure 4 locked. You know hulk smash 2 on 1 from half done by new white belts trui g their Americana.. It could work if you are half dead and can't even keep your elbows close.
 
Yep, don't let them get the grip while your arm is in the position (against the ground bent at the elbow in a right angle) and you are fine. I've been doing BJJ for only three weeks and despite being a 165 pounder I've yet to be subbed by this lock despite it being the main submission we've been working on. Its clearly a strength/leverage move that works only really with massive strength differences. (As seen in jones vs belfort).

at 3 weeks you've rolled with what, 20 people tops? apparently that comprises the entire jiu jitsu world so i guess you're right, the americana is useless
 
From all the high level BJJ I have seen, I think Dominyka Obelenyte uses the Americana the best. She will use deep crossface and ezekiel threats as well as skirt chokes to draw the opponents arms into positons to get the sleeve and control the "head in" Americana.

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Obviously the opponent will fight to keep the elbow closed. If that happens, you can use that to create an arm in/arm out situation and threaten attacks.

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Now, I realize these aren't strictly Americana's. However the threat of the Americana is a large part of a lot of these setups. The "indirect" threat of the Americana is the most valuable part of the technique. If the opponent is forced to over commit to defending one of these attacks or gets careless, this happens...

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Again, i'm not arguing that the Americana is a super high percentage technique, I don't personally use it at all. But imo to imply that it is without merit is a little disingenuous.

Position before submission works on defence too, if someone is in a position to submit you, most people will give up position to avoid a submission. If you get the Americana locked and can legitimately threaten it, most people will give up the possibility of their back in order to avoid certainly tapping.

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In that aspect the Americana can function like a good straight right in boxing. You might not see it in an entire match or exchange, yet the opponent must circle away from it. If that ends up getting them clipped with a left hook, then it means it provides some value.
 
honestly im reluctant to believe that any submission thats not purely a pain compliance technique, or small joint manipulation, cant work at a high level with enough practice. im a low level blue belt so i have next to no credibility, but i still think theres way too much shit we dont know yet about bjj to make a definite statement that 'this will never work.'
 
at 3 weeks you've rolled with what, 20 people tops? apparently that comprises the entire jiu jitsu world so i guess you're right, the americana is useless

Against people stronger than you? I think anyone whose watched MMA for long enough can attest to that. Don't be like Bader man.
 
I remember, though, someone on here talking about Rickson working with him on Americanas and really taking it up to the next level. If you're really, really good at setting up and holding positions for Americanas, an elbow is an elbow, and it ought to work.

well, how many americanas has rickson hit live?

If you get a full figure 4 and bend elbow really fast, it can work, but it is really really reaaally hard to catch people off guard enough for them not to react fast enough to defend the move.
 
honestly im reluctant to believe that any submission thats not purely a pain compliance technique, or small joint manipulation, cant work at a high level with enough practice. im a low level blue belt so i have next to no credibility, but i still think theres way too much shit we dont know yet about bjj to make a definite statement that 'this will never work.'

the move works, if you can set it up fast enough for the other guy not to defend, which is next to impossible at high level, thats all the article says, it doesnt say IT CANT, it says its low% which is a fact, if not, try to find a single americana in black belt or brown belts worlds in the past years, (and gaby doesnt count, shes the exeption the article talks about)
 
the move works, if you can set it up fast enough for the other guy not to defend, which is next to impossible at high level, thats all the article says, it doesnt say IT CANT, it says its low% which is a fact, if not, try to find a single americana in black belt or brown belts worlds in the past years, (and gaby doesnt count, shes the exeption the article talks about)

Check my post above, most of those examples are from last years worlds. Dominyka took absolute and her weight at black belt.
 
Check my post above, most of those examples are from last years worlds. Dominyka took absolute and her weight at black belt.

in your example I did not see a single americana finish, threat yes, not one finish, this is about the move it self, not transitions IMO. Not only that, all I saw was Dominyka trying to trap the arm, well thats an open elbow situation, an open elbow is an opening for many many submissions not just americanas...
 
in your example I did not see a single americana finish, threat yes, not one finish, this is about the move it self, not transitions IMO. Not only that, all I saw was Dominyka trying to trap the arm, well thats an open elbow situation, an open elbow is an opening for many many submissions not just americanas...

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the move works, if you can set it up fast enough for the other guy not to defend, which is next to impossible at high level, thats all the article says, it doesnt say IT CANT, it says its low% which is a fact, if not, try to find a single americana in black belt or brown belts worlds in the past years, (and gaby doesnt count, shes the exeption the article talks about)

not disputing that its low percentage, just saying its not impossible that someone will come along in the future and start dominating with it.
 
I think one important point for me is that "high percentage" and "low percentage" depends on whose hands the technique is in. For example, berimbolo may be great for miyao because it's his game. Others don't use it because of body type or preference or whatever and it will be lower percentage for them. Americana may be low percentage for many but some have mastered it and demonstrate success at the highest level.

So I think that what is basic can become advanced as mastery is obtained. What is low percentage for some is high percentage for others.

I think the idea of "white belt moves" is a false paradigm.
 
Its clearly a strength/leverage move that works only really with massive strength differences. (As seen in jones vs belfort).

Haha, not true. Not worthy of a long post to explain how you are wrong.
 
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