Does Roger prove that 'old school BJJ' is still as effective as 'modern BJJ'?

An interesting hypothetical question that can never be answered, If you put Roger with "new school" technique vs "old school" Roger who would win? I believe no one is more sound and technical than Roger and that is why he is so dominate and he just happens to be old school, so to speak.
 
EGDM said:
The whole sequence to the submission was set up with the sleeve grip Roger secured on the feet. The entire following minute of groundwork was predicated on that control.
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That is what I was getting at. That grip gave Roger the arm, and Buchecha did not appear to have any reason to take that grip other than that it made him feel comfortable playing the standing game that's not his specialty.

That means the OP's question hasn't been answered, as essentially the fight was in Roger's old school realm.
 
Lenny7 said:
Kron?
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Kron has been great
but how many world titles has be won? How many open class matches has he won?
The only other black belt who has won with focus on more fundamental techniques I can think of will be Xande.
 
the heed said:
Kron has been great
but how many world titles has be won? How many open class matches has he won?
The only other black belt who has won with focus on more fundamental techniques I can think of will be Xande.
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To be fair, and I don't really like Kron.. Roger and Xande are both over 200 lbs. I'm not taking anything away from them or their techniques at all. But it's a lot easier to win absolutes when you're a heavyweight or almost a heavyweight. That's why I think the absolute title gets overrated somewhat


I also doubt Buchecha wasn't training bjj like someone said
 
Lenny7 said:
An interesting hypothetical question that can never be answered, If you put Roger with "new school" technique vs "old school" Roger who would win? I believe no one is more sound and technical than Roger and that is why he is so dominate and he just happens to be old school, so to speak.
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Roger has a sparring session where he gets worm guard swept and berimboloed by lagarto so it's not like he is immune to the newest stuff. Roger does new school stuff from 2010 in training so I assume if he added the newest stuff it would just make him even better.
 
I'd like to point out that old school BJJ is still BJJ, so yes it works in a BJJ tournament. As long as you know what your opponents are attempting to do.
 
New stuff always has an edge over old stuff because fewer people have learned how to defend them because they are new.

After a couple years every high level guys know the counters and defense about it so it looks less effective.
 
Who would have thought basic fundamental techniques would beat fancy, complicated over the top techniques? FYI I didn't see the match.
 
jack36767 said:
To be fair, and I don't really like Kron.. Roger and Xande are both over 200 lbs. I'm not taking anything away from them or their techniques at all. But it's a lot easier to win absolutes when you're a heavyweight or almost a heavyweight. That's why I think the absolute title gets overrated somewhat


I also doubt Buchecha wasn't training bjj like someone said
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That was me who said it, and I'm not 'someone', I'm the GOAT.

Anyway Buchecha outweighed Roger by 25 lb. That's like a 2 weight class difference.
 
The thing is, i think it just shows how damn good Roger is.
If you take a Miyao and put them in with some schlub, there won't be anything fancy. The basics will be plenty. Roger can do fancy stuff but doesn't need to.
 
Most people havent done bjj there whole life roger has been doing it since he was a toddler probably and he doesnt have a huge variety of open guards and passes ect so he can drill his game and get his techniques to insane levels
 
flikerstance said:
Most people havent done bjj there whole life roger has been doing it since he was a toddler probably and he doesnt have a huge variety of open guards and passes ect so he can drill his game and get his techniques to insane levels
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Similar to Kron.
 
Since when was a "knee in closed guard to reverse half guard sweep with the sleeve grip" old school?
 
Btw I noticed that roger is starting to get a sun roof on his head now. Wow, seems like yesterday he was a young lion breaking jacare's arm
 


The closed guard sequence has me confused. Buchecha is turned to his left, inside Roger's guard. Roger is halfway to Buchecha's back already. Why is Roger trying to grip and drag Buchecha's left arm to pull him "square". And why doesn't Buchecha turn towards Roger to square up in Roger's guard instead of trying to turn away. I don't understand what each guy is trying to do. It seems like Buchecha got himself in more trouble by turning away exposing his back. Can anyone explain to me please why Buchecha doesn't just square up and why Roger tries to attack the far arm?
 
closequarters said:


The closed guard sequence has me confused. Buchecha is turned to his left, inside Roger's guard. Roger is halfway to Buchecha's back already. Why is Roger trying to grip and drag Buchecha's left arm to pull him "square". And why doesn't Buchecha turn towards Roger to square up in Roger's guard instead of trying to turn away. I don't understand what each guy is trying to do. It seems like Buchecha got himself in more trouble by turning away exposing his back. Can anyone explain to me please why Buchecha doesn't just square up and why Roger tries to attack the far arm?
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Just my guess...

First Buchecha's right arm was exposed from his belt grip while standing. Gracie pulls guard which threatens an armlock or at very least arm control, but Buchecha sticks in his knee to prevent this. That leaves Buchecha turned away where you see Roger halfway to the back. Note he cannot easily square up because of the knee is still in.

Next, they both have a grip on each other's sleeve, but that grip prevents Roger from taking the back. Yes he can try to climb but he risks opening his guard and having Buchecha square up. So they both try to pull each other in, and Roger starts winning, so Buchecha bails by turning away. He opted to turtle rather than risk going directly into back control with hooks in.
 
QingTian said:
Just my guess...

Next, they both have a grip on each other's sleeve, but that grip prevents Roger from taking the back. Yes he can try to climb but he risks opening his guard and having Buchecha square up. So they both try to pull each other in, and Roger starts winning, so Buchecha bails by turning away. He opted to turtle rather than risk going directly into back control with hooks in.
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Here's a different angle. I think I get what you're saying.

Roger: is already in good position so he wants to advance position safely by bringing Buchecha in and inching towards the back or get a sweep. Like a patient vet. If he tries to jump to the back (requires opening his guard), this could create a scramble (something Buchecha is known for being one of the best at).

Buchecha: senses Roger is trying to pull him so he tries two things. He tries to free his left sleeve by using his right hand and pinning down Roger's right hand. He's hoping that will create space and keep Roger from advancing to the back. Once he frees his left arm, he tries to step out of guard but loses his balance. He tries to turtle and roll but Buchecha underestimates Roger's ability to stay glued to him and Roger winds up on top while Buchecha has to settle for an upside down closed guard, which is easily opened by Roger.

I think that's what you are saying, right? Lol
 
closequarters said:


Here's a different angle. I think I get what you're saying.

Roger: is already in good position so he wants to advance position safely by bringing Buchecha in and inching towards the back or get a sweep. Like a patient vet. If he tries to jump to the back (requires opening his guard), this could create a scramble (something Buchecha is known for being one of the best at).

Buchecha: senses Roger is trying to pull him so he tries two things. He tries to free his left sleeve by using his right hand and pinning down Roger's right hand. He's hoping that will create space and keep Roger from advancing to the back. Once he frees his left arm, he tries to step out of guard but loses his balance. He tries to turtle and roll but Buchecha underestimates Roger's ability to stay glued to him and Roger winds up on top while Buchecha has to settle for an upside down closed guard, which is easily opened by Roger.

I think that's what you are saying, right? Lol
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Buchecha was trying to go for the leg, like in their first match.
The sleeve kept him squared up.

 
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