Does Dan Henderson's two Pride Belts hold more value than UFC's Dual Champs?

[Rvd Slmr]

In the ufc, he wasn't champion material...as evidenced by him getting totally trounced by both rampage and silver.

Rampage and Anderson were Pride veterans who both easily captured the UFC gold in just two fights, not sure how losing to them a year after Pride's collapse means that the UFC was too much for Hendo.

 

[Iron Wolf]

Absolutely not...he couldn't beat one ufc champion...so that tells you right there, that his competition in pride was much less than in the ufc...why else did he lose his 2 opportunities? It's great he was a big fish in a little pond...but in the ocean, he was just another fish.

Holy Christ. “Big fish in a “small” pond?” You understand that the UFC was basically Bellator when Dan won those belts in Pride, right? And that at that time Pride was like the UFC was in 2010-2012.

You also understand that both Anderson AND Rampage fought in Pride before the UFC, right? I assume these are the losses you are referring to?

Are you stupid, or just ignorant?

 

[PROlogic]

Lmfao Randy became LHW champ for the first time coming off of 2 losses in a row at HW. Then did the opposite and won the HW belt for the last time coming off of a loss and retirement at LHW.

Randy was the OG of unearned title shots. And that's just between different divisions and isn't even counting how many he got while competing in one for a stretch. Thanks for showing your bias.

Amazing post

One of the realest truths in this thread

I'm glad I'm not the only one

 

[markg171]

Rampage and Anderson were Pride veterans who both easily captured the UFC gold in just two fights

And they were much better fighters by then, so what's your point?

Hendo actually fought Rampage and Anderson

In unification bouts where his belt wasn't the undisputed one being defended. Might as well count Conor's fight against Aldo like this but I know you won't.

But not for the belt.

When he won the belt, the #1 lineal MW was NOT Bustamante at that time either


This is in context of the legitimacy of his belts.

Since he did not beat the number one ranked lineal middleweight for the belt then his middleweight belt is illegitimate.

This isn't about his resume

You're the only one trying to push a narrative. It's unreal to me how people will still argue even when blatantly wrong

Funny how they're all saying Silva was a Pride reject when under their "beat the lineal #1" argument for Hendo Silva was the lineal #1 WW #1 P4P when he beat Sakurai. It wasn't Pride sure, but Anderson's being described as a can by them up until he suddenly won UFC gold.

 

[loyalyolayal]

Hendo wasn't even the favorite when he was challenging for the belts, so those Pride belts were infinitely more valuable to the UFC belts that are just trying to create a storyline for their money makers. I'm not even a Decision Dan fan.

 

[gono btw]

But not for the belt.

When he won the belt, the #1 lineal MW was NOT Bustamante at that time either


This is in context of the legitimacy of his belts.

Since he did not beat the number one ranked lineal middleweight for the belt then his middleweight belt is illegitimate.

This isn't about his resume

You're the only one trying to push a narrative. It's unreal to me how people will still argue even when blatantly wrong

This "lineal thing" is overrated, Im afraid...

Alvarez´s path to the title shot was highly controversial, 3 of his 4 wins before it were SPLIT DECISIONS, very controversial wins agains Chandler 2, Melendez and Petttis. Most people at ringside had Pettis and Chandler winning. And the Melendez fight was pure BS.

Now he got the TS coz of weird timing: El Cucuy was flying under the radar and Khabib was btw 2 injuries, and other dudes had ups and downs..

He technically got the TS by DEFAULT.

All propz to him when he got it, he brawled with RDA and got the best (the truth is, his fight against RDA was very un-Alvarez... guess he wanted to impress and bait McNuggets)

Conclusion> he was a title holder, not a legit champ.

 

[PROlogic]

More fun facts:

Hendo LOST to Misaki while he was the MW pride champ (but in Pride belts were rarely ever defended)

So by the time Hendo fought Anderson, in reality Hendo had already lost his lineal title and status to Misaki

So there was no real title that he was putting on the line against Anderson


The same goes for Hendo vs Rampage

Shogun was the true #1 LHW at that time

Hendo had beaten a sick Wanderlie who was coming off a KO loss to Cro Cop (They rushed Wanderlie into that fight way too soon)

Wanderlie had already lost his #1 lineal rank to Arona who lost it to the great Shogun (Shogun who was the real uncrowded king)

So again there was no real title that he was putting on the line against Rampage either

Hendo and Randy are by far two of the most illegitimate 2 belt holders in MMA

"But they defended"

That's irrelevant and has nothing to do with the legitimacy of who was beaten for the actual titles and who the real champ were. That's just moving the goalposts.

People just refuse to accept that Conor was the most legit 2 belt champ in history

- got his title shot at a higher weight class while an actual active champion. Not coming off losses or retirement

- took out 2 of the greatest champions (the real #1 lineal champs) in their primes in 2 of the deepest divisions in MMA with some of the most impressive performances ever

 

[Typrune Goatley]

But not for the belt.

When he won the belt, the #1 lineal MW was NOT Bustamante at that time either


This is in context of the legitimacy of his belts.

Since he did not beat the number one ranked lineal middleweight for the belt then his middleweight belt is illegitimate.

This isn't about his resume

You're the only one trying to push a narrative. It's unreal to me how people will still argue even when blatantly wrong

So who was the #1 ranked fighter in the world from 2004 to 2007 at 183/185 lbs? I believe it was always Hendo or Lindland (Hendo's teammate) around that time.

Hendo beat Busta, the UFC MW champ and #1 MW in the world in 2003 and beat him again in 2005 in the WW Grand Prix final. The only reason Lindland probably was ranked ahead of him at times was because Hendo went 1-1 with Misaki in 2006 but everyone knows Hendo was basically the top 185(or 183) lb fighter in the world in the 2000s until he lost to Anderson.

 

[POWER2]

in a way, yes...depends on your views of rampant PED use.

He won his belts when everyone was using.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

And they were much better fighters by then, so what's your point?

Yes, they all magically became better in the year between the end of Pride and signing to the UFC.

 

[PROlogic]

This "lineal thing" is overrated, Im afraid...

Alvarez´s path to the title shot was highly controversial, 3 of his 4 wins before it were SPLIT DECISIONS, very controversial wins agains Chandler 2, Melendez and Petttis. Most people at ringside had Pettis and Chandler winning. And the Melendez fight was pure BS.

Now he got the TS coz of weird timing: El Cucuy was flying under the radar and Khabib was btw 2 injuries, and other dudes had ups and downs..

He technically got the TS by DEFAULT.

All propz to him when he got it, he brawled with RDA and got the best (the truth is, his fight against RDA was very un-Alvarez... guess he wanted to impress and bait McNuggets)

Conclusion> he was a title holder, not a legit champ.

This reads like a liberal trying to change the defintion of a fact based on personal feeling

Sorry your feelings dont matter here

If everyone went by your school of illogic, then people could just make up anything and go by what ever they wanted to suit their agenda

"I didnt consider Liddell the real champ therefore Randy's LHW belt never happened"

Sorry the facts are the facts and do not care about feelings

The FACT is Alvarez was the true #1 lineal LW champ

Who took it off RDA who many considered the unstoppable beast at LW

It's hilarious how Alvarez is some how not legit, when he SMASHED THE GUY at LW who everyone was saying was going to be the LW goat

You're just a hater downplaying Alvarez to discredit Conor

Very transparent

Again only the facts matter

Here is the REAL lineal championship progression at LW: from BJ to Frankie to Benson to Pettis to RDA to Alvarez to Conor ...and it's still with Conor right now until someone beats Conor

 

[Franklin U.]

Absolutely not. He came to UFC and lost to rampage and then tappity tapped as Anderson strangled him out with one arm at 185.

 

[gono btw]

This reads like a liberal trying to change the defintion of a fact based on personal feeling

Sorry your feelings dont matter here

If everyone went by your school of illogic, then people could just make up anything and go by what ever they wanted to suit their agenda

"I didnt consider Liddell the real champ therefore Randy's LHW belt never happened"

Sorry the facts are the facts and do not care about feelings

The FACT is Alvarez was the true #1 lineal LW champ

Who took it off RDA who many considered the unstoppable beast at LW

It's hilarious how Alvarez is some how not legit, when he SMASHED THE GUY at LW who everyone was saying was going to be the LW goat

You're just a hater downplaying Alvarez to discredit Conor

Very transparent

Again only the facts matter

Here is the REAL lineal championship progression at LW: from BJ to Frankie to Benson to Pettis to RDA to Alvarez to Conor ...and it's still with Conor right now until someone beats Conor

hmmm..yeah..arguin´with u is obviously..weird...too emotionally invested,lmao

Forget about my opinion and yours, those Split Decisions are FACTS.

 

[Kinniku]

The Pride belts had so much prestige that the UFC had to make unification bouts. For comparison, they completely ignored the Strikeforce belts when the buyout happened

 

[djacobox372]

He didn’t get trounced by Rampage. And losing to Anderson Silva is hardly an indication that one is ‘just another fish’.

Do you even follow MMA?

Only if by "trounced" you mean a close loss by a razor thin toss-up decision against the best version of rampage that ever entered the cage.

 

[markg171]

Now he got the TS coz of weird timing: El Cucuy was flying under the radar and Khabib was btw 2 injuries, and other dudes had ups and downs..

He technically got the TS by DEFAULT.

Eddie was higher ranked than both of them and had better wins, but nice revisionist history.

Yes, they all magically became better in the year between the end of Pride and signing to the UFC.

Nice try with the end of Pride thing, but we're talking 3 years between the losses everybody's referencing and when they won UFC gold. End of Pride is a strawman argument.

 

[gono btw]

Eddie was higher ranked than both of them and had better wins, but nice revisionist history.



Nice try with the end of Pride thing, but we're talking 3 years between the losses everybody's referencing and when they won UFC gold. End of Pride is a strawman argument.

Im not interested in your opinion, those Split Dec. are facts...

 

[PROlogic]

So who was the #1 ranked fighter in the world from 2004 to 2007 at 183/185 lbs? I believe it was always Hendo or Lindland (Hendo's teammate) around that time.

Hendo beat Busta, the UFC MW champ and #1 MW in the world in 2003 and beat him again in 2005 in the WW Grand Prix final. The only reason Lindland probably was ranked ahead of him at times was because Hendo went 1-1 with Misaki in 2006 but everyone knows Hendo was basically the top 185(or 183) lb fighter in the world in the 2000s until he lost to Anderson.

You pretty much covered it all lol

Not much I can say. You're right lol.

Unlike the other guy, I'm not going to keep arguing from a dishonest position against facts

But All I told the other guy was that Hendo did not take the MW belt from the actual lineal title holder at that time. Which is true

 

[illegalnature]

Absolutely not...he couldn't beat one ufc champion...so that tells you right there, that his competition in pride was much less than in the ufc...why else did he lose his 2 opportunities? It's great he was a big fish in a little pond...but in the ocean, he was just another fish.

Different ruleset

 

[Your Salad]

No

Yes.

Maybe.