Does anyone think Stipe beats Prime Cro Cop?

[JayE]

bullshit, i think he matches up very well with him. he is a way more well rounded fighter than cro cop and a better athlete in general. MMA in general has evolved immensely since then, so its hard for people to grasp. do you think he would let cro cop kick him, its going to be the mark hunt gameplan all over again . all day long imo

This is true for other divisions, but not really the HW division.

 

[Final Say]

He stuffed Randleman.....and then got KO'd for it...heh.

badly, badly timed shot. zero set up. stipe also doesnt really shoot basic doubles when he takes guys down.

The one southpaw I saw stipe fight gave him fits until he snagged a single and got a stoppage. The guy he fought was d level in comparison to cro cop.

really bro?

 

[Morning Star]

Cro Cop is the most overrated fighter on this site. Dude is a legend and was always a top contender but he got thoroughly exposed once he left Japan. Funny when he left all you revisionists said he was at his absolute peak coming off the OWGP win. Then he comes to America at 32 years old (where they actually test) and he had a less than stellar win over Eddie Sanchez and gets murdered by Gonzaga and beat by Congo. Then there's his embarrassing KO losses to Scuab and Mir. The guy was a total bust outside Japan.

He also never won a title at his weightclass let alone defended one and was never #1 in his division at any point in his career. I get that a lot of you guys hate Stipe but he's accomplish more in MMA in a few years then Cro Cop has in an entire career. While I think Cro Cop could win that fight (his kicks were legendary), I'd still favor Stipe. Cro Cop had the left punch and left kick, but not much else and was rather one-dimensional.

 

[moreorless87]

Prime is a catchall word people use to describe fighters fighting like shit. He went from winning the GP to get KTFO by Gonzaga in less than 2 fights

His best HW win is Barnett.

I don't really see him as past prime vs Gonzaga so much as not well adapted and fighting a flakey but dangerous opponent who has the perfect
night, kind of similar to his fight with Randleman. Its after that point that I think decline sets in, by his second UFC run he's so obviously
slowed down compared to his prime years that he can't fight the same way at all.

As far as fighting Stipe could I would argue that if he tried to chase down Mirko as he has other opponents he'd be in for a much tougher test
JDS has really poor counters and defence on the back foot, Overeem has decent counters but also poor defence, Mirko had amazing counters and
also exellent defence both in head movement and it being able to slip out the back door.

 

[MuyThaiElbows]

I love me some Stipe Miocic, but PRIDE Mirko would KO him with a head kick in ease.

Stipe eats a lot of shots.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

LMAO you even brought the evolution line. Classic.

Lol the whole MMA has evolved thing cracks me up. Imagine telling someone 10 years ago that Bisping would be champ, Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum and Reem would be in the HW top 10 and Robbie Lawler would go on a nearly 2 year title run.

 

[ConditFan]

Cro Cop is clearly the number 2 or 3 or 4 guy of that era. So if Stipe couldn't beat him, which seems obvious, Stipe is not GOAT.

Goat is resume. So he can be goat if he obtains better wins over his career. You're thinking "best."

 

[ThEiCeMaN6791]

Such short memories MMA fans have.

 

[OriginMMA]

Lol prime randleman got submitted by a K-1 fighter.

am i doing this right?

Yeah you are.

We just both stating facts.

 

[Bubblun]

Lol the whole MMA has evolved thing cracks me up. Imagine telling someone 10 years ago that Bisping would be champ, Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum and Reem would be in the HW top 10 and Robbie Lawler would go on a nearly 2 year title run.

Because they all got better, what it is so hard to understand?

One stop to learn past 30 years old? In mma there is so much to learn that learning never stop.
Here a good article of Demian Maia getting better at 39.

http://www.flocombat.com/article/55...t-ufc-211-unfazed-by-title-chaos#.WR4O5XtZz1w

Accurate takedowns, guard passes and back control - one of the Brazilian's specialties - are frequently on display inside the UFC Octagon. Although the transitions may look the same, the techniques are always in constant evolution. And recently, the jiu-jitsu ace received an unexpected hand from one of his students.

According to Maia, the idea of evolving in jiu-jitsu consists of adjusting each position to perfection. That's why the Brazilian's last bouts against Gunnar Nelson, Matt Brown and Carlos Condit were all finished in different, but similar ways. Of course, these adjustments are kept in secret.

"During this camp I discovered a new transition to the back control," Maia told AG. Fight for FloCombat. "Besides the transition I made against Condit, I learned a new one that allows my submission to be more efficient. A student and friend gave me a tip, I made some adjustments of my own and mixed it with something Rilion [Gracie] once told me. I'm constantly learning.

"It changes a lot. Especially the back control. What I was doing a year ago is totally different form what I do now. It looks the same, but the details regarding the position of your body, arm control, angle and pressure are constantly being evolved. The difference between my submissions against Brown and Condit are clear. I put a lot of work there. After I fought Brown, I started to study the reason I had lost positions. I always do this kind of stuff and I was much more efficient against Condit."

 

[The Penetrator]

Then he comes to America at 32 years old (where they actually test) and he had a less than stellar win over Eddie Sanchez and gets murdered by Gonzaga and beat by Congo.

UFC didnt test for shit till USADA, guys were roided all over the place... Cro Cop is actually 1-0 under USADA, since his only fight under USADA was vs Gonzaga 2 ( Although it was in Poland, im not quite sure who did the testing there ).

Mirko really never got used to the cage though, and young Gonzaga indroduced him to elbows in a brutal fashion right at the start of his UFC career. Reality is, ring favours strikers and cage favours wrestlers, Mirkos stalking style was made and developed in a ring, as we have seen in his K1 career where he beat a solid list of guys, and he transfered that style to Pride perfectly. Octagonal cage and elbows on the ground, its a totally different game....

After loss to Gonzaga, he started really strong vs Kongo, who was juiced to the gills, almost UBEREEM levels of horsemeat, but then Kongo kneed him in the nuts like 6 times in the 2nd round, Mirko continued but couldnt do shit...

His contract ended with that fight, lost of motivation, injuries, inability to adapt his style to the cage, i think that was the 1st time he announced retirement, and we know how many times he went back and gave it another shot. 2nd time in UFC he started ok but then ran into a young stud Dos Santos, he fought well for a while, did sink in some shots, but Dos Santos was motivated, young, big, skilled... Mir Schaub and Nelson fights were pretty sad though, Mirko looked unmotivated, flat footed, even said it himself he was thinking about fishing in between rounds. Took a rest after that, probably took some mexican supplements, healed up banked knees and shoulders and went for another run, winning his next 8 fights and a weak but dangerous K-1 tournament, to end his career. And still might come back to fight Fedor, if Fedor accepts the challenge...

Guy is a legend, a pioneer, first truly schooled heavyweight striker in mma, insane tdd, definetly in my top 5 HWs of all time...

Also remember, back in the day they fought every 2 months, hell Randleman KOed Mirko into oblivion, Mirko had a fight 3 WEEKS aftar that KO... Nowadays they arent allowed to even spar for 5 months... Back in the day you fight 8 times a year, to keep you sharp, they just lining up everyone, cans, pro wrestlers, kickboxers, street fighters, champions, they all want to win, and we all get to discover which style works, some times even twice in one night...

 

[illclint]

Pride cro cop, no. UFC cro cop, yes.

 

[KORMAN]

I've seen Stipe get tagged far too often, and right on the button for me to think he has any chance with Cro Cop, standing up. And we saw how effective those leg kicks were against him by JDS. Not Cro Cop, but JDS. Think about that. Cro Cop would have him limping with just 1 leg kick, and would more than likely split his head open with a left high kick, or a left hand counter, or lead. Cro Cop's lead left hand was laser like.

 

[LORDTENSAIMMA]

Not too many guys that beat prime Crocop. Nog would have gotten destroyed in a rematch. It took Fedors best night to get a decision and a fucked up face for his troubles.

 

[LORDTENSAIMMA]

Lol prime randleman got submitted by a K-1 fighter.

am i doing this right?

Doing it perfect

I'm a huge CC fan. I think anyone that says either guy "easily" beats the other has any credibility. I believe it would be a close fight and I honestly don't know who would win. I lean towards CC, maybe b/c I'm a big fan and I have PrideFC nostalgia, but anyone with MMA knowledge should see that it could go either way.

Stop thinking sensibly

 

[moreorless87]

Because they all got better, what it is so hard to understand?

One stop to learn past 30 years old? In mma there is so much to learn that learning never stop.
Here a good article of Demian Maia getting better at 39.

http://www.flocombat.com/article/55...t-ufc-211-unfazed-by-title-chaos#.WR4O5XtZz1w

Accurate takedowns, guard passes and back control - one of the Brazilian's specialties - are frequently on display inside the UFC Octagon. Although the transitions may look the same, the techniques are always in constant evolution. And recently, the jiu-jitsu ace received an unexpected hand from one of his students.

According to Maia, the idea of evolving in jiu-jitsu consists of adjusting each position to perfection. That's why the Brazilian's last bouts against Gunnar Nelson, Matt Brown and Carlos Condit were all finished in different, but similar ways. Of course, these adjustments are kept in secret.

"During this camp I discovered a new transition to the back control," Maia told AG. Fight for FloCombat. "Besides the transition I made against Condit, I learned a new one that allows my submission to be more efficient. A student and friend gave me a tip, I made some adjustments of my own and mixed it with something Rilion [Gracie] once told me. I'm constantly learning.

"It changes a lot. Especially the back control. What I was doing a year ago is totally different form what I do now. It looks the same, but the details regarding the position of your body, arm control, angle and pressure are constantly being evolved. The difference between my submissions against Brown and Condit are clear. I put a lot of work there. After I fought Brown, I started to study the reason I had lost positions. I always do this kind of stuff and I was much more efficient against Condit."

Lets be honest though, you'll always hear this "better than ever" talk not just from promoters but from fighters and camps he obviously want to believe it, talking about potential decline is not really a winning mentality is it besides not being a good sell of a fight.

In terms of Maia I actually think his sucess more than anything highlights that WW was dispite being very hyped actually one of the least evolved divisions in the sport for along time. The problem always was IMHO that it was only really the UFC investing in it which ment the talent base was narrow and heavily focused on US wrestlers with very few high level sub fighters. Thats resulted in a hell of alot of fighters who don't know how to deal with someone they want to avoid grappling with totally(not just someone they can take down first). Maia himself besides obviously having a size advantage isnt actually that different for me, when he comes up against someone like Rory who had the all around game he struggled and indeedlast weekend he also looked questionable standing with shots that were easily stuffed.

HW on the other hand was a divison that had loads of money thrown at it from multiple orgs from the late 90's onwards and that ment it advanced much more quickly, attracting top talent from other sports who could pay for top trainers. You mention all around grappling but I see hardl any of that at HW today, Cain's a good wrestler although not much of a sub fighter, Stipes an OK wrestler, Werdums a great grappler but hasnt taken anyone down in years. There are loads of guys at HW who have never really had there grappling tested fully as a result, for years we heard Cain was a monster on the ground with his evolved trainign enviroment yet when it came to Werdum he wouldnt take him down and got subbed when he was forced to. Not the case in the 00's were we had several fighters with all around games to test people including someone like Barnett who was obviously a hell of a lot more agile than today.

Its the same in terms of standup as well, Stipe had basically worked by just pushing forwrad, getting people against the cage and hurting them. The defence JDS and Overeem showed in those situations was just poor, nobody can honestly say thats better skill than we saw from say Fedor, Crocop, Nog, Sergei, etc in the past. HW today has very much become a dvision of glass canons(I don't just mean chin wise) IMHO, great theres finishing ability but almost everyone has big holes in there game.

 

[loyalsword21]

Prime Cro cop would be too fast imo. But who knows it's mma..

 

[tru3f4n]

He could. But I would pick Cro Cop. Awful style matchup for Stipe.

If Randleman landed a bomb onhim, no reason Stipe couldn't.

That being said, I would pick Cro Cop via decision

Cro Cop had a bad habit of getting beat by fighters he shouldn't have like Micheal McDonald and Mike Bernardo in K-1 and Gonzaga, Hunt, Nelson, Schaub in MMA but I doubt a Prime versatile Cro Cop would get caught by Stipe Mirko by KO.

 

[ThePunisher]

Stipe has zero defense.

 

[Fedor>Cain]

Cro Cop had a bad habit of getting beat by fighters he shouldn't have like Micheal McDonald and Mike Bernardo in K-1 and Gonzaga, Hunt, Nelson, Schaub in MMA but I doubt a Prime versatile Cro Cop would get caught by Stipe Mirko by KO.

Stipe got wrecked by Struve lol