Do you think the closest thing to All-time great Native American/American Indian boxers...

[LatinTerminator480]

aside from Henry Armstrong, are several Latin American boxers(Latin America)?

Since it seems like Native American boxers are almost non-existent, with Henry Armstrong(Top 5 All-Time Great P4P boxer) being only Half Native American(also 1/4 White, 1/4 Black) according to his biography. As for Latinos, people need to realize that Latino isn't race. It's an ethnicity composed of multiple races, with Mestizo(Half White, Half American Indian), American Indian(full-blooded) and Mulatto(Half Black, Half White) being the most predominant racial groups of the Latin America region. For instance, Carlos Monzon(Nationality: Argentinian), who's a Top 4 ATG Middleweight boxer, looks pretty racially American Indian. Ruben Olivares(Nationality: Mexican) who's another ATG boxer, looks like Indio-Mestizo(Someone who's racially mixed with White European to some degree but more predominantly American Indian).

Carlos Monzon -

Ruben Olivares -

 

[dembones22]

aside from Henry Armstrong, are several Latin American boxers(Latin America)?

Since it seems like Native American boxers are almost non-existent, with Henry Armstrong(Top 5 All-Time Great P4P boxer) being only Half Native American(also 1/4 White, 1/4 Black) according to his biography. As for Latinos, people need to realize that Latino isn't race. It's an ethnicity composed of multiple races, with Mestizo(Half White, Half American Indian), American Indian(full-blooded) and Mulatto(Half Black, Half White) being the most predominant racial groups of the Latin America region. For instance, Carlos Monzon(Nationality: Argentinian), who's a Top 4 ATG Middleweight boxer, looks pretty racially American Indian. Ruben Olivares(Nationality: Mexican) who's another ATG boxer, looks like Indio-Mestizo(Someone who's racially mixed with White European to some degree but more predominantly American Indian).

Carlos Monzon -

Ruben Olivares -

I didn't hear a real question. Can I help you, sir?

 

[mozfonky]

There have been many boxers who claim Indian background and of course the latins are mainly Indian. The assertion that race is a social construct has a lot of truth to it. In the latin american countries, the mestizos do not count themselves as Indian, (Mexicans consider themselves Mexicans right?) but in the US guys like me (a half-breed) are considered Indian in general unless a guy has the appearance to pass. Passing is a custom of claiming white when a person is close enough to do so. In that vein, the half-breed Tommy Morrison dyed his hair blonde, claimed distant relation to John Wayne and took advantage of being a "white-hope". Chuck Norris never denied being Indian but he never was too assertive about it, he spoke of his fight scene with bruce lee being about chinese winning over caucasian. Tom Petty said in an interview that he and his family carried the shame of being Indians and passed when possible. So, the social construct thing is obviously different in different countries. It goes the other way too, lots of black people claimed being Indian, somehow thinking it would be a way to step up from being black, as if being Indian was any better in this society. I've read Joe Louis' relatives claimed being Indian, how much proof of that? I don't know. It isn't uncommon to have the black/native mix but it's also not uncommon for black people to think they had Indian grandparents when they didn't. All that said, probably the most noteworthy fighter who could have a legitimate claim to being Indian would be Jack Dempsey I think. Been a lot of lesser fighters, even champs, Virgil Hill is another who claimed Indian although it's obvious he's black too. Joe Hipp was a decent heavyweight out of my era who was Indian, Tommy Hearns had a relative who said they were Indian. As far as pure Indians, I can't think of anyone, there aren't that many full bloods left, I have some in my family but two generations from now they'll probably be all mixed.

 

[The Moloko man]

Came in to say jack dempsey....obviously the post above beat me to it

Just a Sidenote, but alot of american people(both white and black but mostly white) have some native american in them

Halfs and quarter NA mixed with caucasian pass all the time for white except if theyre mixed with certain tribes(half breed apache and seminole always look visibly native to me)


Jessica jaymes is half cherokee....most would probably assume shes greek or italian

Mischa brooks is only 1/8 "white"....the rest is native american

The captain of the love boat is also half indian btw

White supremacist dont even care if you have native american ancestory

In prison aryan brotherhood is even less dicriminate...look up michael thomas who was a half breed indian that became a high level enforcer, who joine AB after mexican gang members attempted to kill him as he performed shamen rituals, which the the catholic hispanics mistook for devil worshiping

 

[mozfonky]

Came in to say jack dempsey....obviously the post above beat me to it

Just a Sidenote, but alot of american people(both white and black but mostly white) have some native american in them

Halfs and quarter NA mixed with caucasian pass all the time for white except if theyre mixed with certain tribes(half breed apache and seminole always look visibly native to me)


Jessica jaymes is half cherokee....most would probably assume shes greek or italian

Mischa brooks is only 1/8 "white"....the rest is native american

The captain of the love boat is also half indian btw

White supremacist dont even care if you have native american ancestory

In prison aryan brotherhood is even less dicriminate...look up michael thomas who was a half breed indian that became a high level enforcer, who joine AB after mexican gang members attempted to kill him as he performed shamen rituals, which the the catholic hispanics mistook for devil worshiping

gavin mcleod, never would a guessed it, i'm glad i didn't get the bald gene is all i can say. Mischa brooks looks white, never heard of her, i'll look it up. Women have often found it easier to pass for many reasons, feminine features tend to hide some of the overt Native features and if a woman is mixed, it's generally not much different than a brunnette white person. Many people have mistakenly thought I was white but generally, i'm mistaken for being mexican or mixed, oddly, black people, for some strange reason always seem to know I'm indian (of course indians generally recognize too). Tom Petty's story of "passing" even though they only had 1/4 indian in them is a common one, I've run across many, usually women, who've passed as white or been encouraged too because being Indian was too hard. One of the major things i really hate about Indian women is how oblivious they are to how the men are treated, they have so much resentment for the men, no understanding and that's why I have never really wanted to hookup with an indian woman, a lot of issues stemming from their daddy on down to every Indian screwwup they might have known.

 

[dembones22]

There have been many boxers who claim Indian background and of course the latins are mainly Indian. The assertion that race is a social construct has a lot of truth to it. In the latin american countries, the mestizos do not count themselves as Indian, (Mexicans consider themselves Mexicans right?) but in the US guys like me (a half-breed) are considered Indian in general unless a guy has the appearance to pass. Passing is a custom of claiming white when a person is close enough to do so. In that vein, the half-breed Tommy Morrison dyed his hair blonde, claimed distant relation to John Wayne and took advantage of being a "white-hope". Chuck Norris never denied being Indian but he never was too assertive about it, he spoke of his fight scene with bruce lee being about chinese winning over caucasian. Tom Petty said in an interview that he and his family carried the shame of being Indians and passed when possible. So, the social construct thing is obviously different in different countries. It goes the other way too, lots of black people claimed being Indian, somehow thinking it would be a way to step up from being black, as if being Indian was any better in this society. I've read Joe Louis' relatives claimed being Indian, how much proof of that? I don't know. It isn't uncommon to have the black/native mix but it's also not uncommon for black people to think they had Indian grandparents when they didn't. All that said, probably the most noteworthy fighter who could have a legitimate claim to being Indian would be Jack Dempsey I think. Been a lot of lesser fighters, even champs, Virgil Hill is another who claimed Indian although it's obvious he's black too. Joe Hipp was a decent heavyweight out of my era who was Indian, Tommy Hearns had a relative who said they were Indian. As far as pure Indians, I can't think of anyone, there aren't that many full bloods left, I have some in my family but two generations from now they'll probably be all mixed.

Some black chicks claim to be half Cherokee, but there really is just a bunch of bald ass horses walking around..

 

[mozfonky]

Some black chicks claim to be half Cherokee, but there really is just a bunch of bald ass horses walking around..

it's hard to say, even with dna, I don't think dna is that good that it can catch every relative going back 400 years, that's a lot of people, a lot. also, things happen in family folklore, I've always noticed most families have some lore about being mixed with something. I knew a Swedish woman who had some afro type hair pop out of her head, she doubted her parentage. My own folk think they were mixed with French. It's a funny thing, people really don't like being what they are, whatever it is so they spice it up. What makes it that much harder is that older relatives who may have passed, may have written "white" on a census confuses people even more. I was just in an argument about Elvis, to me, he's obviously part Indian but there isn't anyone who got it down on paper and no one has done a dna test. Even with someone that popular and analyzed people can't get good info. I read his grandmother was jewish but that doesn't even seem cut and dry and there were always people, black and white who thought he was passing for white in the early days of his career, which I think might have some truth to it to be honest. Not that he knew he had black blood but anything is possible in the Americas.

 

[dembones22]

it's hard to say, even with dna, I don't think dna is that good that it can catch every relative going back 400 years, that's a lot of people, a lot. also, things happen in family folklore, I've always noticed most families have some lore about being mixed with something. I knew a Swedish woman who had some afro type hair pop out of her head, she doubted her parentage. My own folk think they were mixed with French. It's a funny thing, people really don't like being what they are, whatever it is so they spice it up. What makes it that much harder is that older relatives who may have passed, may have written "white" on a census confuses people even more. I was just in an argument about Elvis, to me, he's obviously part Indian but there isn't anyone who got it down on paper and no one has done a dna test. Even with someone that popular and analyzed people can't get good info. I read his grandmother was jewish but that doesn't even seem cut and dry and there were always people, black and white who thought he was passing for white in the early days of his career, which I think might have some truth to it to be honest. Not that he knew he had black blood but anything is possible in the Americas.

More importantly, why is any of this important in relation to boxing ??



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[Sunfish]

If Julia Jones isn’t relevant to boxing then...

 

[Prefect]

More importantly, why is any of this important in relation to boxing ??



.

Ethnic identity is largely a mental construct. There are few pure breeds. Period. My brother did a DNA test and it came back as Spanish. Slavic, Italian, Dutch, Swedish, and Russian. He runs a family business that is german Austrian themed but it turns out our family doesn't have a drop of German blood. But we could for employment applications say we identified as latino.

I have a strong suspicion any boxer coming out of Oklahoma and Nebraska has some Indian blood even if they don't know it

 

[Kassitus]

Joe Louis was half Cherokee.

 

[Kassitus]

Ethnic identity is largely a mental construct. There are few pure breeds. Period. My brother did a DNA test and it came back as Spanish. Slavic, Italian, Dutch, Swedish, and Russian. He runs a family business that is german Austrian themed but it turns out our family doesn't have a drop of German blood. But we could for employment applications say we identified as latino.

I have a strong suspicion any boxer coming out of Oklahoma and Nebraska has some Indian blood even if they don't know it

Germany was created when the Prussians managed to unite most of the speakers of a dialect chain who called themselves Dutch/Deutsch. 200 years ago there would have been no distiction between your Dutch ancestors and people from modern Germany. Furthermore all Europeans are the result of neolithic migrations of local hunter-gatherers, horsemen from the Russian steppe, and farming folk from modern day Turkey. A Greek and an Irishman simply have different proportions of the same genes.

 

[mozfonky]

More importantly, why is any of this important in relation to boxing ??



.

i didn't ask the question, someone else did and it's been asked before recently by someone else so it must be on people's minds. race/nationality/ethnicity/religion are huge factors in boxing, it's how many fighters gain a fanbase. It's natural to feel pride in one from your group that does well. black people had a near religious faith in Joe Louis, Italians worshipped Marciano, emmanuel steward claimed that Julio Cesar Chavez was bigger than Ali in Mexico. So, i'd say it matters financially and sociologically to the sport. Just look how americans have ignored the russian heavyweight champs we had, if it were up to us, those guys wouldn't make nearly as much money (of course their fighting styles are a big part of the problem too).

 

[mozfonky]

Joe Louis was half Cherokee.

i'd have to see some proof of that. I did read an interview, from the thirties with his brother who said that they were Indian but as I stated, lots of black people claimed that for various reasons. Chuck Berry put Indian on some of his forms which is very interesting. Truthfully, even if none of us were genetically mixed, we are thoroughly mixed culturally. Look at Ali in his white man suits, Elvis in his Pimp clothes, we're all in this shit together.
here is a pretty racist article where Joe's relatives claim they were about only a quarter black:http://www.afrigeneas.com/forum-aar...ead/id/19987/sbj/family-history-of-joe-louis/

 

[deathstalker]

In the book Four Kings it says that Duran was born from a Native American mother and a Mexican-American father, which is where the nickname "El Cholo" came from.

 

[Hagler]

Virgil Hill is another who claimed Indian although it's obvious he's black too.

I remember him back in the days entering the ring with an Indian war bonnet, and giving it to Mormeck when he lost his late belt to him.

 

[mozfonky]

I remember him back in the days entering the ring with an Indian war bonnet, and giving it to Mormeck when he lost his late belt to him.

why'd he give him a war bonnet, was mormeck indian? kinda strange, Hill is also on the shortlist of gay champs too although i have no idea of whether that's true or not. I remember alex wallau saying that people mistake hill for black when he was indian, but, honestly, indians have never had curly hair, never.

 

[Hagler]

why'd he give him a war bonnet, was mormeck indian? kinda strange, Hill is also on the shortlist of gay champs too although i have no idea of whether that's true or not. I remember alex wallau saying that people mistake hill for black when he was indian, but, honestly, indians have never had curly hair, never.

It was about earning it by defeating Hill, I guess. Mormeck isn't indian, he's from the French Carribean.

 

[mozfonky]

well, kinda a nice gesture i guess. I just read marvin camel was a halfbreed.

 

[Kassitus]

here is a pretty racist article where Joe's relatives claim they were about only a quarter black:http://www.afrigeneas.com/forum-aar...ead/id/19987/sbj/family-history-of-joe-louis/

I read the article and it seems to be talking about their complete family tree. It wouldnt surprise me considering Tiger Woods is only 1/8th black but people still just think of him as a black guy. It is very crude and 0% politically correct, but pretty interesting. Did you see when Snoop Dogg and Charles Barkley did that DNA test?