Do you think Sagetdao is washed up?

[executionermma]

Sagetdao is 31 years old, certainly past the age stadium MT champions use to peak, but Sagetdao himself seems like a outlier considering he was a Lumpinee champ at 25/26.

That said, the question isn't exactly if he's or not in his athletic prime, physically speaking his best days must be behind him for sure, but regarding his current skillset & competitiveness in combat sports, how do you see him?

I ask because i found it funny that he lost to a 21 years old Chinese kid, a very mediocre MMA fighter, while looking very gunshy on the feet. Either it is because a traditional MT background doesn't translate very well into MMA (my opinion) or because he's shot. Which one?

Disclaimer: i don't follow MT, never did.

 

[Kanka]

Maybe he is just not that good in MMA

On the other hand at this point i can see him get beaten guys journeymen like Julio Lobo in muay thai.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Well I didn't even realize he was still fighting, let alone MMA. So yeah I'd say he's fairly washed up...

 

[executionermma]

@Cocakillbana ?

 

[Cocakillbana]

@Cocakillbana ?

I was told in 2013 from someone close to the Kiatpet gym that his fire was dwindling.

I don't know if he's shot, but I doubt many of the Thais at Evolve are training close to what they did in Thailand. I imagine he's holding pads for dudes and dabbling in BJJ and taking a fight here and there for the hell of it.

 

[executionermma]

I was told in 2013 from someone close to the Kiatpet gym that his fire was dwindling.

I don't know if he's shot, but I doubt many of the Thais at Evolve are training close to what they did in Thailand. I imagine he's holding pads for dudes and dabbling in BJJ and taking a fight here and there for the hell of it.

You kinda have to believe that, right? Otherwise how bad it would be for your Thai fandom that a Lumpinee champion (5~ years ago) lost to a low lv kid while taking MMA seriously..

Thanks for answering.

 

[SuperLuigi]

You kinda have to believe that, right? Otherwise how bad it would be for your Thai fandom that a Lumpinee champion (5~ years ago) lost to a low lv kid while taking MMA seriously..

Thanks for answering.

Wasn't his loss that fight that got overturned because it was a close decision? Also wasn't his opponent a wrestling champion from China? No shame in that imo.

 

[executionermma]

Wasn't his loss that fight that got overturned because it was a close decision? Also wasn't his opponent a wrestling champion from China? No shame in that imo.

More like it was overturned because it was a clear win to the Chinese kid.. that 21 years old background is wrestling, yes, but not a national champion. Going to the fight he was 5-2.
Not exactly a terrible loss, but pretty much highlights what i've been talking about, Traditional MT seems like a terrible base for MMA.

 

[Cocakillbana]

More like it was overturned because it was a clear win to the Chinese kid.. that 21 years old background is wrestling, yes, but not a national champion. Going to the fight he was 5-2.
Not exactly a terrible loss, but pretty much highlights what i've been talking about, Traditional MT seems like a terrible base for MMA.

You mean I can find examples of prominent figures from various disciplines who didn't perform well in MMA and use that to show how the overall sport doesn't work in "real fighting?" Well, shit...

Frank Mir submitted Roberto Traven in 1 minute

Shungo Oyama got rid of Peter Aerts in 30 seconds

Kazuyuki Fujita laid waste to Karam Ibrahim and Eldar Kurtanidze

 

[executionermma]

You mean I can find examples of prominent figures from various disciplines who didn't perform well in MMA and use that to show how the overall sport doesn't work in "real fighting?" Well, shit...

Frank Mir submitted Roberto Traven in 1 minute

Shungo Oyama got rid of Peter Aerts in 30 seconds

Kazuyuki Fujita laid waste to Karam Ibrahim and Eldar Kurtanidze

Not a single Thai has been successful in MMA at the highest level. Many tried, including some Lumpinee champions, and they all failed miserably.

There have been kickboxers like Mark Hunt and even Adesanya now, and multiple BJJ guys and wrestlers.
Sambo? Yep: Khabib, Fedor, Taktarov, etc.
Judo? Sure: Lombard, Parisyan, Ishii, etc.

That false comparison is actually funny, and the one talking about "real fighting" is you, MMA has many rules, i never said that.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Many tried, including some Lumpinee champions, and they all failed miserably.

No they haven't.

There have been kickboxers like Mark Hunt and even Adesanya now, and multiple BJJ guys and wrestlers.

Muay thai is a bad base for MMA, but no more so than stand up sports are generally. MMA is totally dominated by guys with grappling heavy credentials or no notable credentials prior to MMA.

 

[executionermma]

No they haven't.

2 Lumpinee and 1 Raja champion have tried MMA - as soon as they fought decent competition they lost, that's a fact, not a opinion

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

2 Lumpinee and 1 Raja champion have tried MMA - as soon as they fought decent competition they lost, that's a fact, not a opinion

There have been 5 or 6 muay thai fighters, who I would consider good, who have done mma. And they all started around the age of 30 or later. So no, "many" haven't tried.

Second, while no thai has ever accomplished anything notable, they haven't all "failed miserably" either. Both Somdet and Dejdamrong have had decent careers at 115lbs, which is a terrible division and a mediocre accomplishment, so they weren't exactly "miserable failures".

 

[executionermma]

There have been 5 or 6 muay thai fighters, who I would consider good, who have done mma. And they all started around the age of 30 or later. So no, "many" haven't tried.

Second, while no thai has ever accomplished anything notable, they haven't all "failed miserably" either. Both Somdet and Dejdamrong have had decent careers at 115lbs, which is a terrible division and a mediocre accomplishment, so they weren't exactly failures.

I'm not familiar with Somdet MMA career so i won't comment on it, i'll give you that, his MMA career seems to have been decent, not a failure.

Dejdamrong has been submitted and KO'd by mediocre competition, and as soon as he fought decent 115ers (Naito and Pacio) and not total cans, he lost. He's a mediocre fighter, but it's ok because he's a really, really old man, so he gets a pass.
Malaipet and Sagetdao do not, at least not from me. Sagetdao's run probably isn't over so we shall see, but Malaipet's turned out to be an incredible failure.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

I'm not familiar with Somdet MMA career so i won't comment on it, i'll give you that, his MMA career seems to have been decent, not a failure.

Dejdamrong has been submitted and KO'd by mediocre competition, and as soon as he fought decent 115ers (Naito and Pacio) and not total cans, he lost. He's a mediocre fighter, but it's ok because he's a really, really old man, so he gets a pass.
Malaipet and Sagetdao do not, at least not from me. Sagetdao's run probably isn't over so we shall see, but Malaipet's turned out to be a incredible failure.

Ok, fine. But you're basically backtracking from what you said earlier.

You clearly don't know very much about muay thai, if you're including Malaipet as evidence of how amazingly accomplished muay thai fighters have consistently failed in MMA.

Dejdamrong has been submitted and KO'd by mediocre competition, and as soon as he fought decent 115ers (Naito and Pacio) and not total cans, he lost. He's a mediocre fighter, but it's ok because he's a really, really old man, so he gets a pass.
Malaipet and Sagetdao do not, at least not from me. Sagetdao's run probably isn't over so we shall see, but Malaipet's turned out to be an incredible failure.

And to repeat my earlier post, you can make the same point about kickboxers, karate guys, boxers, who tried MMA. Not really unique to or an indictment of muay thai.

 

[Cocakillbana]

I'm not familiar with Somdet MMA career so i won't comment on it, i'll give you that, his MMA career seems to have been decent, not a failure.

Dejdamrong has been submitted and KO'd by mediocre competition, and as soon as he fought decent 115ers (Naito and Pacio) and not total cans, he lost. He's a mediocre fighter, but it's ok because he's a really, really old man, so he gets a pass.
Malaipet and Sagetdao do not, at least not from me. Sagetdao's run probably isn't over so we shall see, but Malaipet's turned out to be an incredible failure.

Malaipet wasn't close to being good enough in muay thai to be considered an "incredible failure" in mma."

Why do you keep going on with an argument when you've already said you don't follow the sport?

 

[Cocakillbana]

Remember when a debuting Saksongkram beat up Ben Nguyen?

 

[executionermma]

Ok, fine. But you're basically backtracking from what you said earlier.

You clearly don't know very much about muay thai, if you're including Malaipet as evidence of how amazingly accomplished muay thai fighters have consistently failed in MMA.

And to my earlier post, you can make the same point about kickboxers, karate guys, boxers, who tried MMA. Not really unique to or an indictment of muay thai.

You're right, i do not follow it, the only things i know about Malaipet it's that he was once a Raja champion, tried MMA, failed miserably and went back to MT/KB. Also saw a bit of him on Lion Fight at YT.

Malaipet wasn't close to being good enough in muay thai to be considered an "incredible failure" in mma."

Why do you keep going on with an argument when you've already said you don't follow the sport?

Because i think Thai elitists like you refuse to acknowledge the truth that a MT fighter could never succeed in MMA without heavily adapting his game to MMA. Instead you all act like the only reason no Thai won important titles it's because they never tried, what is false. They did and failed. You could take whatever Thai that is on his early 20s and throw money at them to come to MMA and they would still

 

[executionermma]

Remember when a debuting Saksongkram beat up Ben Nguyen?

Ben Nguyen is not a good fighter, a BJJ guy with terrible hands in Jussier Formiga dropped and submitted him, made it look easy. A mediocre flyweight journeyman.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

You're right, i do not follow it, the only things i know about Malaipet it's that he was once a Raja champion, tried MMA, failed miserably and went back to MT/KB. Also saw a bit of him on Lion Fight at YT.

He wasn't Raja champ. And even if he was, it doesn't mean anything. Malaipet wasn't a good fighter.

People like you just make lazy reference to these title without knowing what they mean. Being a stadium champion does not make you a great fighter, by default.