Do you know anything about ATA taekwondo?

Kid at 17:17 is so serious, like he's trying to take a shit and it won't come out. Same thing with the one at 54:49.

Damn, those are some very specific timestamps. Did you watch the whole thing or something?

I used to want to do the Xtreme martial stuff when I was younger, they did all kinds of dope shit like ninja jumps and flips.

I'm sure if XMA had been a thing when I was 13 then I'd have been all about it. I kind of wish it had been, actually.
 
Out of curiosity, when your instructor left the ATA what forms did he start teaching? I'm assuming that he didn't take the ATA/Songahm forms with him. I don't think I've ever heard of those being taught outside of an ATA school.

And I agree with you that TKD instruction is as good as the instructor.

Out of curiosity, if you were that deeply embedded in the TKD world, why did you quit?

Youre right the Songahm forms are copyrighted. We used the Chang Hon Ryu form patterns which are the ITF forms which anyone can use I believe. I left TKD cause I was burned out teaching and running my Master's school as program manager for years. It was my gig that paid my way thru college. I was making only 10 bucks an hour and no commission on the contracts I sold. My instructor was only there 3 days a week and we had at our peak 250 students at 80 bucks a month. He was raking in the dough, but I was a brainwashed fool and stuck with him. He mentally abused me and it was like a cult. Sunday 6am instructor workouts to test our discilpline. Assisting wiht sleepovers for the kids, birthday parties for the kids, car washes, demos in the public, running booths at fairs, being forced to hard sell people on contracts, etc. I had been with him since I was a teenager and it was hard to leave. I had always wanted to learn mma and bjj and the first ufc blew my mind. He was close minded. Didnt care for other arts much excpept boxing and a little judo. We were transitioning to another organization right when I left and I realized it was time to leave after 16 years with him. I didnt want to learn all new form patterns, wanted to learn mma, jkd, and bjj.

I got into bjj , jeet kune do and mma and am very happy that I did what I did. I still miss teaching and the comraderie but I have found that in alot of traditional martial arts schools there is mind maniuplation that goes on. Happens at some bjj schools too. My friend owns a tkd school and I help judge testings from time to time and maybe someday will go back to teaching it again. I do miss it at times.
 
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Youre right the Songahm forms are copyrighted. We used the Chang Hon Ryu form patterns which are the ITF forms which anyone can use I believe.

Out of curiosity, what did you think of the Songahm forms?

I ran across an argument recently where two guys were arguing over what were better, the Songahm forms or the Chang-Hon forms.

I left TKD cause I was burned out teaching and running my Master's school as program manager for years. It was my gig that paid my way thru college. I was making only 10 bucks an hour and no commission on the contracts I sold. My instructor was only there 3 days a week and we had at our peak 250 students at 80 bucks a month. He was raking in the dough, but I was a brainwashed fool and stuck with him. He mentally abused me and it was like a cult. Sunday 6am instructor workouts to test our discilpline. Assisting wiht sleepovers for the kids, birthday parties for the kids, car washes, demos in the public, running booths at fairs, being forced to hard sell people on contracts, etc. I had been with him since I was a teenager and it was hard to leave. I had always wanted to learn mma and bjj and the first ufc blew my mind. He was close minded. Didnt care for other arts much excpept boxing and a little judo. We were transitioning to another organization right when I left and I realized it was time to leave after 16 years with him. I didnt want to learn all new form patterns, wanted to learn mma, jkd, and bjj.

I got into bjj , jeet kune do and mma and am very happy that I did what I did. I still miss teaching and the comraderie but I have found that in alot of traditional martial arts schools there is mind maniuplation that goes on. Happens at some bjj schools too. My friend owns a tkd school and I help judge testings from time to time and maybe someday will go back to teaching it again. I do miss it at times.

Interesting. That's weird, because from your earlier post it seemed like your instructor was pretty cool.

In any case, I think that if I practiced a martial art for that long that it would just become a part of me and a part of my life. Like, even if you didn't want to teach anymore or work with that particular instructor, I'm surprised you didn't just break away and find another group to pair with to keep up your own training, even if you were going to branch out to other martial arts.
 
Out of curiosity, what did you think of the Songahm forms?

I ran across an argument recently where two guys were arguing over what were better, the Songahm forms or the Chang-Hon forms.



Interesting. That's weird, because from your earlier post it seemed like your instructor was pretty cool.

In any case, I think that if I practiced a martial art for that long that it would just become a part of me and a part of my life. Like, even if you didn't want to teach anymore or work with that particular instructor, I'm surprised you didn't just break away and find another group to pair with to keep up your own training, even if you were going to branch out to other martial arts.
I personally like the songahm forms better. I felt they were flashier a bit more and flowed better. The ITF forms are very traditional in almost a Japanese hard style way with emphasis on overexaggerated hand techniques and deep stances, like traditional japanese karate, but in a korean art.

My instructor was a great instructor and could be a great guy at times. Thats the thing. Much like a domestic violence relationship, there is good with the bad. People always want things or someone to be black or white, good or bad. He a mixed bag and that was what kinda keeps you on a hook. Never knew if you were getting good daddy or bad daddy. And being with him since i was a teenager and with an absent dad in my life, he kinda did fill the dad role. It was complicated.

I still practiced the kicks and stretched everyday(less so now) when I left him and I still have some great friends that I am still friends with to this day. I dunno why exactly I didnt keep training in the art. I was burned out on tournaments. Never was the best competitor.... I just put emphasis on arts that were more practical for self defesne, which is why i got into martial arts in the first place at 14, cause i was bullied. Maybe i associated tkd with my instructor on subconscious level or something? Like ptsd lol. Actually just writing this post is kinda nice cause its making me ask myself questions that i hadnt asked in a long time.
 
I personally like the songahm forms better. I felt they were flashier a bit more and flowed better. The ITF forms are very traditional in almost a Japanese hard style way with emphasis on overexaggerated hand techniques and deep stances, like traditional japanese karate, but in a korean art.

My instructor was a great instructor and could be a great guy at times. Thats the thing. Much like a domestic violence relationship, there is good with the bad. People always want things or someone to be black or white, good or bad. He a mixed bag and that was what kinda keeps you on a hook. Never knew if you were getting good daddy or bad daddy. And being with him since i was a teenager and with an absent dad in my life, he kinda did fill the dad role. It was complicated.

I still practiced the kicks and stretched everyday(less so now) when I left him and I still have some great friends that I am still friends with to this day. I dunno why exactly I didnt keep training in the art. I was burned out on tournaments. Never was the best competitor.... I just put emphasis on arts that were more practical for self defesne, which is why i got into martial arts in the first place at 14, cause i was bullied. Maybe i associated tkd with my instructor on subconscious level or something? Like ptsd lol. Actually just writing this post is kinda nice cause its making me ask myself questions that i hadnt asked in a long time.

Indeed. Well that's interesting.

I'm been fucking around with karate for on-and-off again for the last few years. It's mostly been on and off because I'm not totally happy with the schools or the instructor, but I recently found a new place that is probably the best I've found so far so I'm going to try to stick with it this time.

Karate is one of those things that, even when I decide I don't like a school and quit training formally, it's always still with me in some way. I always feel it calling to me. I like the community that surrounds karate, the philosophy of the art, the combat ideas behind it, the hidden depths of kata and so on. I'm sure if I actually manage to stick with it formally for long enough to get to 1st Dan that I'll be so deeply entrenched that I'll never get out. It will just be a part of me at that point.

If I was 20-years-old and in perfect health again I'd probably end up at an MMA gym like you did, but I find that at my post-athletic-prime of 36 Shotokan is about the right speed for me.

I appreciate you sharing your story. As I said, it's pretty interesting. I have no idea how old you are, but I wonder if, as you get older, you might ever swing back around and find a renewed interest in the traditional styles again.
 
Damn, those are some very specific timestamps. Did you watch the whole thing or something?



I'm sure if XMA had been a thing when I was 13 then I'd have been all about it. I kind of wish it had been, actually.
Naw, it was too long so I clicked at various parts, and their facial expressions was lol-worthy so I went to see when their snippets started

XMA was "around" when I was starting, but its was very low key, pretty much no gyms taught it unless you found that one special guy who was in the know
 
Indeed. Well that's interesting.

I'm been fucking around with karate for on-and-off again for the last few years. It's mostly been on and off because I'm not totally happy with the schools or the instructor, but I recently found a new place that is probably the best I've found so far so I'm going to try to stick with it this time.

Karate is one of those things that, even when I decide I don't like a school and quit training formally, it's always still with me in some way. I always feel it calling to me. I like the community that surrounds karate, the philosophy of the art, the combat ideas behind it, the hidden depths of kata and so on. I'm sure if I actually manage to stick with it formally for long enough to get to 1st Dan that I'll be so deeply entrenched that I'll never get out. It will just be a part of me at that point.

If I was 20-years-old and in perfect health again I'd probably end up at an MMA gym like you did, but I find that at my post-athletic-prime of 36 Shotokan is about the right speed for me.

I appreciate you sharing your story. As I said, it's pretty interesting. I have no idea how old you are, but I wonder if, as you get older, you might ever swing back around and find a renewed interest in the traditional styles again.
Thanks for sharing your history with me. I too consider myself a life long martial artist and will continue in some form or another , the arts forever. Im sure you will get your first dan and will continue for the rest of yor life, hopefully. I too, appreciate the lessons in ife that ive learned like humility, grace under pressure, perseverance, knowing when to be firm or soft depending on situation(no pun intended), discipline and self control. Im in my mid forties and train bjj or mma 3x weekly and weights/cardio the other days of the week. It gets harder to continue the mma class due to the wrestling sparrring. Bjj is rough too, but with the gi, I can slow down the younger tigers. I will probably transition out of the mma class at some point. I train with guys who are amateur mma fighters and am more of a sparring partner than anything for them. I think I will either go back to training and teaching tkd at some point(and continue bjj for life and earn my black belt)and/or get heavily into Tai Chi. I am very interested in the chinese intternal systems and would love to delve into that someday. Good luck in your training and keep at it. Oss!
 
I too consider myself a life long martial artist and will continue in some form or another , the arts forever. Im sure you will get your first dan and will continue for the rest of yor life, hopefully. I too, appreciate the lessons in ife that ive learned like humility, grace under pressure, perseverance, knowing when to be firm or soft depending on situation
I see you have trained in the bang arts as well
 
My kid went to ATA for a couple of years. More like an active after school program. It's a joke if the goal is to learn martial arts. The parents basically pay their way to a black belt for the kids. We know one family who sent three kids through all the way to black belt because they wanted them to feel like they accomplished something important. They got to pay an extra $300 or so for each kid for some black belt preparation classes too. So, you have these 12 year old black belts running around feeling all proud who can't even throw a proper kick and would still get their asses kicked in the school yard. They have a bunch of belts and of course half belts because every test costs money - so you'll have a green belt recommended and a green belt decided etc. I've never seen any kid not advance. They have special groups - that you pay extra money for - so your kid can be in the leadership group or whatever. That sets up this weird caste system among the kids. Along the way you also have to buy all the gear and weapons from ATA. It's like an ATM for the owner. I would be surprised if they had any franchises in poorer areas. I don't know what the adult programs are like. I'd feel like a Kramer if I took classes at an ATA.
 
My kid went to ATA for a couple of years. More like an active after school program. It's a joke if the goal is to learn martial arts. The parents basically pay their way to a black belt for the kids. We know one family who sent three kids through all the way to black belt because they wanted them to feel like they accomplished something important. They got to pay an extra $300 or so for each kid for some black belt preparation classes too. So, you have these 12 year old black belts running around feeling all proud who can't even throw a proper kick and would still get their asses kicked in the school yard. They have a bunch of belts and of course half belts because every test costs money - so you'll have a green belt recommended and a green belt decided etc. I've never seen any kid not advance. They have special groups - that you pay extra money for - so your kid can be in the leadership group or whatever. That sets up this weird caste system among the kids. Along the way you also have to buy all the gear and weapons from ATA. It's like an ATM for the owner. I would be surprised if they had any franchises in poorer areas. I don't know what the adult programs are like. I'd feel like a Kramer if I took classes at an ATA.

I've heard that it's very expensive. Just costs out the fucking ass. There's a fee for this and a fee for that, and then you have to pay a fee for having to pay another fee. And then lastly: You have to pay more fees for something else.

I've also heard about the "recommended" and "decided" levels for the belts, which I don't understand at all. Seems pretty obvious that whole thing is just a con and a way to milk the students (or their parents) out of money.

Regarding the adult programs, I've always wondered if they are any more serious or hardcore than the kids classes or if it's the same old shit. I know they have some kind of MMA thing or at least they did at one point. Not sure if that is still a thing or if the instruction is worth a shit.





 
I've heard that it's very expensive. Just costs out the fucking ass. There's a fee for this and a fee for that, and then you have to pay a fee for having to pay another fee. And then lastly: You have to pay more fees for something else.

I've also heard about the "recommended" and "decided" levels for the belts, which I don't understand at all. Seems pretty obvious that whole thing is just a con and a way to milk the students (or their parents) out of money.

Regarding the adult programs, I've always wondered if they are any more serious or hardcore than the kids classes or if it's the same old shit. I know they have some kind of MMA thing or at least they did at one point. Not sure if that is still a thing or if the instruction is worth a shit.






TKD MMA eh? Turned into a wrestling, no, crappling match real fast. :p
 
TKD MMA eh? Turned into a wrestling, no, crappling match real fast. :p

Ha.

I'm not sure if ATA MMA is even a thing anymore--I haven't heard anything about it in a while--but to their credit I've heard that their grappling "certification" was actually developed in conjunction with the Gracies, so that counts for something.

That does lead to me wanting to praise them for one thing: I liked the idea of their certification programs. As I understand it, basically they were running (maybe still do) these short extra-curricular programs where you could learn the basics of some other martial art and get "certified." I know there was a grappling cert, a Krav Maga cert, I think maybe an Arnis cert. . .

I actually like that idea. I think it's an interesting way to introduce other styles to your students. And having done judo in the past, I can say that if you ONLY knew the white belt curriculum from judo then that would be enough to give you a solid foundation for throwing people and grappling with them.
 
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