Do you know anything about ATA taekwondo?

you would still learn to fight and should be able to handle yourself in a self-defense encounter provided you're not greatly outsized.

I agree with that statement. Same could be said for boxing or muay thai as well. This is why IMO BJJ is one of the greatest martial arts for self defense, yeah theres plenty of cons to it, but for a 1 vs 1 situation, it is the greatest size difference equalizer. A really good small guy is like a Boa Snake.
 
The thing with the ITF schools that I visited is that they're REALLY focused on making TKD something that anyone can do, so the intensity gets ratcheted down. I remember a conversation I had with an instructor where I mentioned some things I didn't like about a lot of the ITF classes I had seen and how I "didn't think those classes were building effective fighters," and she was like, "C'mon, taekwondo is a hobby for people. It's something people do to stay in shape and have fun."

It comes down to the instructor. ITF TKD has the bases to be a very hardcore discipline, and lots of schools follow that path. ITF comes directly from the lineage of the founder of TKD, and kept his principles which were that it should be a martial art, not a sport. He was against competition because of the limited rules sets for example.
Obviously some schools will deviate and make it "customers friendly", and some school will have both. I mean they will have some softer training for some people, and more extreme for those who want it.

For example at my place, there are 2 very high level people. One girl and one guy. Both have started from very young and are now in their mid 20s. The girls doesn't give a damn about competition. She spars, and she is decent at it, but she will only spar light, since she never train for actual matches. Our instructor wont press her when she doesn't go hard. But he will if her technique is not good.

On the other hand, the guy is all about competition... So with him, the expectations from the trainer are a lot different. And so are the drills and the intensity of the training and the sparring.

So when they do the same drills, he will mostly correct the technique for the girl, and the intensity/power for the guy. Obviously, if one day she is too lazy, or if he is too sloppy, they will hear about it...

And it's not about a girl/boy thing. We a have a teen girl that is tough as shit, and he makes her train with us at high intensity, and with hard sparring.
 
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ITF comes directly from the lineage of the founder of TKD, and kept his principles which where that it should be a martial art, not a sport. He was against competition because of the limited rules sets for example.

Just since you bring it up, I don't think there's anything wrong with there being a sport side to martial arts. Martial sports can develop a lot of skills that are important in real fighting encounters, like understanding how to keep distance and time attacks and the like. MMA is the closest thing we have in the combat sports world to a "real fight" and think about how Machida's point karate experience has helped him in MMA. Same goes for Stephen Thompson.

I used to be one of those guys who would laugh at stuff like WKF karate competitions, for instance. I thought it was ridiculous--and to be fair, I still think some of it ridiculous--but I later understood that such competitions can help to develop important skills. Just as importantly, if you just look at it as a sport like any other sport--basketball, ping-pong, whatever--if the people who do it enjoy doing it, who gives a shit about the rest? Just let people have fun and stay in shape and do what they do.

Regarding ITF competition specifically, I think of it as "kickboxing-lite." I think it's cool except for one glaring thing that I always take issue with, and that is the tendency for ITF matches to devolve into two people balancing on one leg and throwing weak hopping side kicks at each other. It's silly.

For example at my place, there are 2 very high level people. One girl and one guy. Both have started from very young and are now in their mid 20s. The girls doesn't give a damn about competition. She spars, and she is decent at it, but she will only spar light, since she never train for actual matches. Our instructor wont press her when she doesn't go hard. But he will if her technique is not good.

On the other hand, the guy is all about competition... So with him, the expectations from the trainer are a lot different. And so are the drills and the intensity of the training and the sparring.

So when they do the same drills, he will mostly correct the technique for the girl, and the intensity/power for the guy. Obviously, if one day she is too lazy, or if he is too sloppy, they will hear about it...

And it's not about a girl/boy thing. We a have a teen girl that is tough as shit, and he makes her train with us at high intensity, and with hard sparring.

So how long have you been involved with your ITF class?

One day you should give what I think is your Joe Higashi avatar a rest for a little while in favor of Kim Kaphwan.
KimKaphwan2.gif
 
I image this was the board meeting:

2atz7t.jpg

It really does seem like a completely nonsensical and ill-advised decision. But I figure they thought the kids would think it was cool and that's their bread and butter so they figured to hell with what adults thought about it.
 
So how long have you been involved with your ITF class?

I think it's been around 7 years now that i cross train with those pajama guys...

Just since you bring it up, I don't think there's anything wrong with there being a sport side to martial arts.

What may bother some, it's that they have the same name, but is a totally different thing. I'm guessing it might be like whats happening to bjj now days... With the sport version been completely different from the original self defense orientated one...
I have a lot of fun, talking shit to some BJJ guys at the mma gym, about the donkey guard... And you can see their frustration that BJJ has developed into something completely different from what they knew. With their own lot of McDojos, and the more sport orientated gyms and new techniques only viable in bjj tournaments, etc...

Anyway, that doesn't really concern me, SINCE MUAY THAI IS THE BEST AND FAK ALL THE REST... (and I don't want to hear about belt systems, and watered down MT for fitness classes or MMA... they don't exist, it's all a lie)
 
Anyway, that doesn't really concern me, SINCE MUAY THAI IS THE BEST AND FAK ALL THE REST... (and I don't want to hear about belt systems, and watered down MT for fitness classes or MMA... they don't exist, it's all a lie)
Just wait until the IFMA gets the feeling it's getting close to Olympic recognition. It'll be glorious.
 
No... Nuh hu...never gonna happen...nop... no...no way...You mister is a liar, and a traitor to the human race...
 
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I should point out, that despite his TKD training, aside from the occasional spinning kick he'd throw - a lot of Anthony Pettis' kicking is standard southpaw muay thai - which he's trained in since he was about 16 I believe. Maybe younger. Obviously I don't want to discredit what TKD means to him and his skill in it, but he and his coach have frequently cited Samart Payakaroon as his main influence
 
ATA TKD is generally considered a McDojo (or McDojan) organization, with very low standards for skill requirement.
There might be the occasional skilled practitioner or fighter originating in the organization -but they are accidental rare flukes.
And then there is the notorious "camouflage belt".
 
ATA TKD is generally considered a McDojo (or McDojan) organization, with very low standards for skill requirement.
There might be the occasional skilled practitioner or fighter originating in the organization -but they are accidental rare flukes.
And then there is the notorious "camouflage belt".

I'm someone who has come to understand that, at least in this day and age, martial arts practice can be a lot of things and doesn't necessarily have to be about combat effectiveness. On that note, while a lot of the people who come out of ATA schools just look like shit, the organization does seem to be good at the XMA stuff.

I have watched a few of their competition videos and the majority of the focus is clearly on youth doing really pretty, flashy forms with lots of acrobatics, so perhaps if that is what you're going for in your martial arts training then an ATA school could be a good fit. But for anything else, it really does seem like you'd probably be better served elsewhere, unless you just happen to land at an outlier that happens to be good because the instructor is good.

Apparently they even get some ESPN exposure:


 
I'm someone who has come to understand that, at least in this day and age, martial arts practice can be a lot of things and doesn't necessarily have to be about combat effectiveness. On that note, while a lot of the people who come out of ATA schools just look like shit, the organization does seem to be good at the XMA stuff.

I have watched a few of their competition videos and the majority of the focus is clearly on youth doing really pretty, flashy forms with lots of acrobatics, so perhaps if that is what you're going for in your martial arts training then an ATA school could be a good fit. But for anything else, it really does seem like you'd probably be better served elsewhere, unless you just happen to land at an outlier that happens to be good because the instructor is good.

Apparently they even get some ESPN exposure:


XMA, proponents of the Xtreme Kiai, AKA batshit crazy at the top of your lungs.
 
I'm someone who has come to understand that, at least in this day and age, martial arts practice can be a lot of things and doesn't necessarily have to be about combat effectiveness. On that note, while a lot of the people who come out of ATA schools just look like shit, the organization does seem to be good at the XMA stuff.

I have watched a few of their competition videos and the majority of the focus is clearly on youth doing really pretty, flashy forms with lots of acrobatics, so perhaps if that is what you're going for in your martial arts training then an ATA school could be a good fit. But for anything else, it really does seem like you'd probably be better served elsewhere, unless you just happen to land at an outlier that happens to be good because the instructor is good.

Apparently they even get some ESPN exposure:



I'm sorry but this is painful to watch... I feel like these guys are training to become baddies in direct-to-video kung fu flicks. TV-inspired martial artists. And that pink belt that I joked about in a previous post... apparently they have that too. o_O (timestamped)

 
I'm sorry but this is painful to watch... I feel like these guys are training to become baddies in direct-to-video kung fu flicks. TV-inspired martial artists. And that pink belt that I joked about in a previous post... apparently they have that too. o_O (timestamped)

I just googled it and that seems to be a charity thing though. People buy a pink belt, wear it in October as part of a cancer awareness month and the money they paid goes to a NGO. Can't really fault that.
 
I just googled it and that seems to be a charity thing though. People buy a pink belt, wear it in October as part of a cancer awareness month and the money they paid goes to a NGO. Can't really fault that.
OK charity is nice and all... but a pink belt is still horribly corny. Even a pink gi isn't as corny.
 
I'm sorry but this is painful to watch... I feel like these guys are training to become baddies in direct-to-video kung fu flicks.

Well that's exactly what XMA is. It's movie martial arts. I think that's fine as long as the people doing it understand that's what it is, a branch of the performing arts rather than an actual way of fighting.

Here's a tour of the old XMA headquarters. Mike Chat (XMA creator) himself says "XMA is a fusion of all different styles of martial arts, acrobatics, dance, gymnastics, the performing arts, all rolled into one. . . There's no self-defense, no traditional curriculum."

Like I said, I actually think it's cool and the people who do it are very talented. It just needs to be understood for what it really is.


 
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OK charity is nice and all... but a pink belt is still horribly corny. Even a pink gi isn't as corny.

I think it's just something here in the US, but during October you see people with all kinds of pink shit, especially pink ribbons. Pink = cancer awareness.

So it's a whole movement and the pink belt makes sense in context.
 
Got my 1st degree black belt in an ATA school and my red collar, instructor trainee certification. My instructor eventually left the org and started a new one with some other masters. I eventually got to become a full instructor and 4th dan in TKD. I havent trained TKD in many years and am now a brown belt in bjj and train in an mma class. I learned many valuable things at my school as my instructor always emphasized full contact sparring(though no punches to face) and I learned good boxing technique as he trained boxing when he was younger. It was more point sparring tournaments, but classroom was continuous sparring. Think Wonderboy type lead leg techniques although we trained some WTF style kicking techniques too. My instructor kinda blended the point style, WTF, and traditional ITF style into one style as he learned from a traditional korean master. Im familiar with all of those different types of TKD.
I think TKD is as good as the insructor that teaches it and yes, the ATA is a mcdojo type org. But even now I can still fuck with dudes in my mma class who only have a muay thai background. Not all, but most. Took forever to get used to getting kicked in legs. I blend it into my kickboxing sparring at times. Go from traditional muay thai, to orthodox, to southpaw to side stance like wonderboy. Throws people off their game. I am not the best at muay thai, but am improving. I learned many good things from my time training TKD, but like I said, it depends on the org and the instructor.
 
I'm sorry but this is painful to watch... I feel like these guys are training to become baddies in direct-to-video kung fu flicks. TV-inspired martial artists. And that pink belt that I joked about in a previous post... apparently they have that too. o_O (timestamped)


Kid at 17:17 is so serious, like he's trying to take a shit and it won't come out. Same thing with the one at 54:49.

I used to want to do the Xtreme martial stuff when I was younger, they did all kinds of dope shit like ninja jumps and flips.
 
Got my 1st degree black belt in an ATA school and my red collar, instructor trainee certification. My instructor eventually left the org and started a new one with some other masters. I eventually got to become a full instructor and 4th dan in TKD. I havent trained TKD in many years and am now a brown belt in bjj and train in an mma class. I learned many valuable things at my school as my instructor always emphasized full contact sparring(though no punches to face) and I learned good boxing technique as he trained boxing when he was younger. It was more point sparring tournaments, but classroom was continuous sparring. Think Wonderboy type lead leg techniques although we trained some WTF style kicking techniques too. My instructor kinda blended the point style, WTF, and traditional ITF style into one style as he learned from a traditional korean master. Im familiar with all of those different types of TKD.
I think TKD is as good as the insructor that teaches it and yes, the ATA is a mcdojo type org. But even now I can still fuck with dudes in my mma class who only have a muay thai background. Not all, but most. Took forever to get used to getting kicked in legs. I blend it into my kickboxing sparring at times. Go from traditional muay thai, to orthodox, to southpaw to side stance like wonderboy. Throws people off their game. I am not the best at muay thai, but am improving. I learned many good things from my time training TKD, but like I said, it depends on the org and the instructor.

Out of curiosity, when your instructor left the ATA what forms did he start teaching? I'm assuming that he didn't take the ATA/Songahm forms with him. I don't think I've ever heard of those being taught outside of an ATA school.

And I agree with you that TKD instruction is as good as the instructor.

Out of curiosity, if you were that deeply embedded in the TKD world, why did you quit?
 

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