Do you guys use the 5x5 "Starting Strength" routine by Rippetoe?

[Sano]

Yeah, convict conditioning is good. It's easy to fix the pull up progression (just do it like the push-ups and add more intermediary pulling angles)

So the picture slide in this thread is the same as the one from convict conditioning? Or is it just the same principle with illustrated progressions? I've never looked into it. Anyway, it's very cool! I'll definitely try some of it out!

 

[panamaican]

So the picture slide in this thread is the same as the one from convict conditioning? Or is it just the same principle with illustrated progressions? I've never looked into it. Anyway, it's very cool! I'll definitely try some of it out!

No, it's not the progression from convict conditioning. But similar principles.

CC does the push up, the squat, and the pull up progression. It uses a slightly different leg raise progression and a very different handstand progression. It also uses a backbend progression (for low back strength and flexibility) which you don't see often.

The CC book isn't free but you can find the progressions with google.

I recommend doing either but in their entirety to make you're getting a balanced workout.

 

[Kframe]

I always thought that BW was limited strength gain and more about increasing endurance.

I will throw my 2 cents in. As a obese guy who is loosing weight, BW exercises are not a possibility. I wont ever be doing pull ups or handstand pushups till I drop another human from my mass. BUT I can keep adding weight to the barbell. Now don't get me wrong, I want to do BW, and master my own body, but that will have to wait.

In the mean time, I do all compounds 4x8. Keep raising weight ever few weeks and it has been very nice.

 

[panamaican]

I always thought that BW was limited strength gain and more about increasing endurance.

I will throw my 2 cents in. As a obese guy who is loosing weight, BW exercises are not a possibility. I wont ever be doing pull ups or handstand pushups till I drop another human from my mass. BUT I can keep adding weight to the barbell. Now don't get me wrong, I want to do BW, and master my own body, but that will have to wait.

In the mean time, I do all compounds 4x8. Keep raising weight ever few weeks and it has been very nice.

That's true too. Strength to weight ratio is going to be a limiting factor in getting started on bw but you can still work up to it. It is limited strength gain but it's unlikely that most people are at the limit unless they're already pretty strong.

The endurance issue is more about how you train bw than intrinsic to bw itself. Most people train it at the high rep range but with relatively low strength req's so, yeah, at that point they're just boosting muscular endurance with limited strength gain.

But if they progress the bw exercises themselves, they can continue to gain strength...to a point. Put another way, no one should be doing 100 regular push ups as the end point of their bw training. They should eventually get to one arm push ups. Why? Because while you're still lifting the same bw, now you're asking just your chest and single arm to handle it. It's similar to going from benching 135 on a barbell to benching two 135 dumbbells. Obviously, if you can move the same weight with one hand you're much stronger. In weight work, no one would stop at a 135 bench but they frequently stop there with push up variations, instead of progressing to the more difficult variations and the strength requirements that come with them.

Handstand pushups are another example. If you can shoulder press your weight then you don't need handstand push ups. But not many average gym goers are doing that. But strength is strength, everyone should take the path that resonates most with them.

 

[Kframe]

That's true too. Strength to weight ratio is going to be a limiting factor in getting started on bw but you can still work up to it. It is limited strength gain but it's unlikely that most people are at the limit unless they're already pretty strong.

The endurance issue is more about how you train bw than intrinsic to bw itself. Most people train it at the high rep range but with relatively low strength req's so, yeah, at that point they're just boosting muscular endurance with limited strength gain.

But if they progress the bw exercises themselves, they can continue to gain strength...to a point. Put another way, no one should be doing 100 regular push ups as the end point of their bw training. They should eventually get to one arm push ups. Why? Because while you're still lifting the same bw, now you're asking just your chest and single arm to handle it. It's similar to going from benching 135 on a barbell to benching two 135 dumbbells. Obviously, if you can move the same weight with one hand you're much stronger. In weight work, no one would stop at a 135 bench but they frequently stop there with push up variations, instead of progressing to the more difficult variations and the strength requirements that come with them.

Handstand pushups are another example. If you can shoulder press your weight then you don't need handstand push ups. But not many average gym goers are doing that. But strength is strength, everyone should take the path that resonates most with them.

I honestly didn't know there were so many variations of the pushup. I know that incline makes it easer, say if I do them on some stairs. But decline, does that make it harder?

 

[panamaican]

I honestly didn't know there were so many variations of the pushup. I know that incline makes it easer, say if I do them on some stairs. But decline, does that make it harder?

Yes, decline is harder. When you're doing a standard push up you're moving ~65% of your bw. You can increase that percentage by gradually positioning more of your bw above your shoulders. during the movement So from decline, eventually to handstands. Strengthening your entire upper body along the way.

Or you can gradually transition to one arm movements which leaves the weight moved at the same amount but increases the strength on each side.

Something I learned and didn't know is that while everyone remembers that the big muscles (chest, legs, back) need to grow, they don't always remember that the surrounding muscles need to be hit repeatedly if they're going to provide proper assistance to the big ones. So, while someone's bench might be increasing because the pecs are getting stronger, the smaller stabilizing and assisting muscles don't necessarily get stronger as fast and they can lag the pecs, which can result in some plateauing until they catch up. Compound exercises make sure that the smaller muscles get their work in but sometimes people rush to increase weight before the small muscles are ready.