Do you consider Central/South America part of the west? If not, you might be a racist

[VivaRevolution]

Simple thought experiment here. Do you consider central and south America part of the west?

Those countries are Christian, Democratic, and mostly free markets.

By what measure other then race, would one exclude those nation's from the west?

If you think it makes sense to exclude central and south America from the concept of the west based on race, would you then also exclude Spain from the West? That would be a hard sell considering Spain's influence on Europe, and Colonial times.

Discuss.....

 

[2arctanx]

ur joking? have you seen mexican beheading videos? no they are not part of the west.

 

[VivaRevolution]

ur joking? have you seen mexican beheading videos? no they are not part of the west.

Ummm, so anywhere beheadings exist, is excluded from the west?

So, no nation is from the west?

It is like Mormon heaven where the population of Iceland makes it in?

I think the French take issue with your definition.

 

[Halge]

By what measure other then race, would one exclude those nation's from the west?

Every south american immigrant I've met (in Sweden) has been a goddamn commie. And there's nothing I've heard about South American politics that would make me think of them as anything but predominantly Second World or at least closer to it than the First World. I know the terms don't apply today, but to me the West are the countries that historically opposed the Soviet bloc.

 

[The ScorpioN]

No.

I've lived in Ecuador and visited Guatemala numerous times. Public schools are nonexistent, they look like ruins, while private schools are hard to afford. The divide between the rich and poor is like the divide between CM Punk and Jon Jones.

Children are running around selling cigarettes and chiklets, McDonald's and store plazas are guarded by security with automatic rifles, you can't safely walk around large swaths of the cities, I remember people getting murdered for their shoes, I dread to even think about the public hospitals. It's a shitshow.

I'm very lucky to live in the US.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Every south american immigrant I've met (in Sweden) has been a goddamn commie. And there's nothing I've heard about South American politics that would make me think of them as anything but predominantly Second World or at least closer to it than the First World. I know the terms don't apply today, but to me the West are the countries that historically opposed the Soviet bloc.

And do you think the Scandanavian block, would today oppose the Soviet Union on ideological grounds?

I don't.

Europe is just as Democratic Socialist as Central and South America.

I will concede that their is more support for state ran authrotarian socialism in Central and South America, then all but China, and a few other SE Asian nation's.

Of course I would question if you are aware of just how large the socialist movement was in even the US, nevermind Europe, prior to the cold war.

 

[Seaside]

NO.

I consider ´´west´´´and have always and everyone i know consider it to be white people countries mostly anglo, nordic/alpine western europe. I consider it really to be the EU, USA, Canada, Australia, new zealand, UK... But be fair even though bulgaria and romania in the EU i dont consider them western they are 3rd world in many ways and them inside it is odd.

I guess the anglo sphere proper, france, germany, and western EU. The divide seems to happen at hungary and poland. like old iron curtain still. But i do consider the baltics to be western in there outlook they are all about that eu dick and liberalism from west. They just need the dose of multiculturalism!!

 

[VivaRevolution]

No.

I've lived in Ecuador and visited Guatemala numerous times. Public schools are nonexistent, they look like ruins, while private schools are hard to afford. The divide between the rich and poor is like the divide between CM Punk and Jon Jones.

Children are running around selling cigarettes and chiklets, McDonald's and store plazas are guarded by security with automatic rifles, you can't safely walk around large swaths of the cities, I remember people getting murdered for their shoes, I dread to even think about the public hospitals. It's a shitshow.

I'm very lucky to live in the US.

So you define the west by public schools, hospitals, and crime rates?

You might be a socialist.

 

[Falsedawn]

And do you think the Scandanavian block, would today oppose the Soviet Union on ideological grounds?

I don't.

Europe is just as Democratic Socialist as Central and South America.

I will concede that their is more support for state ran authrotarian socialism in Central and South America, then all but China, and a few other SE Asian nation's.

Of course I would question if you are aware of just how large the socialist movement was in even the US, nevermind Europe, prior to the cold war.

This is why we put so much emphasis on the definitions of socialism, communism, and soviet communism. Socialism took root in the US post WW1, extremely hard. Socialists aren't beholden to Soviet ideology any more than communists are, even in the current day. There are about as many differences between Leninism/Stalinism and Socialism as there are between Capitalism and Socialism.

 

[smithwick]

Yes. Hemispheres matter.

 

[ironfist05]

ur joking? have you seen mexican beheading videos? no they are not part of the west.

what's worse? a couple of thugs with absolutely no relation to the majority of Mexican's beheading somebody? or a nation's military which dropped a literal metric ton of bombs per person on a tiny country neighboring Vietnam for 8 years?

what's more horrible? an MS-13 gang? Or the US partaking in the starvation of 28 million people to Saudi Arabia's south?

Which could you stand less? Knowing that drugs like weed are being smuggled into the US? Or knowing that the west happily supported genocides in Guatemala, Timor Leste, and Iraq, among others?

the decision is easier to make then you want it to be. Don't fall for the optics.

 

[VivaRevolution]

This is why we put so much emphasis on the definitions of socialism, communism, and soviet communism. Socialism took root in the US post WW1, extremely hard. Socialists aren't beholden to Soviet ideology any more than communists are, even in the current day. There are about as many differences between Leninism/Stalinism and Socialism as there are between Capitalism and Socialism.

Agreed. I would call the US primarily Democratic Socialists from post WWI, until the 1970's.

I also think the vast majority in central and south America are Democratic Socialists, and not Authoritarian socialists, while conceding it has a larger Authoritarian socialist minority then most of the rest of the world.

 

[Judoka1532]

Simple thought experiment here. Do you consider central and south America part of the west?

Those countries are Christian, Democratic, and mostly free markets.

By what measure other then race, would one exclude those nation's from the west?

If you think it makes sense to exclude central and south America from the concept of the west based on race, would you then also exclude Spain from the West? That would be a hard sell considering Spain's influence on Europe, and Colonial times.

Discuss.....

idk where the claims of racism are coming from. It boils down to this: mexico, panama, costa rica, belize, Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and el Salvador are not as American as America. Canada is a lot more American than those countries. Also, there's plenty of minorities making up about 38% of America's population. So to say America is white is misleading. Majority white-yes, but enough minorities to say America is a place of many people.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

"If you X you might be racist"

Why use such a pathetic cickbait format?

 

[VivaRevolution]

idk where the claims of racism are coming from. It boils down to this: mexico, panama, costa rica, belize, Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and el Salvador are not as American as America. Canada is a lot more American than those countries. Also, there's plenty of minorities making up about 38% of America's population. So to say America is white is misleading. Majority white-yes, but enough minorities to say America is a place of many people.

But how can you argue America is the west?

Is Italy not part of the west?

Is Greece part of the west? Greece is a 3rd world shithole today.

 

[panamaican]

Let's not forget that some people don't even consider Greece, the birthplace of modern Western culture, or Italy, which exported that culture via Rome, as part of the West. So, I'm going to assume that Central and South America which are basically the outgrowth of Spain's culture, aren't considered the West either.

Of course, that's a strange perspective. The birthplaces of western culture aren't the West and the lineal outgrowths of western culture aren't the West.

Maybe it's a latitude thing. You can't be in the West if you're below a certain latitude?

 

[ironfist05]

Every south american immigrant I've met (in Sweden) has been a goddamn commie. And there's nothing I've heard about South American politics that would make me think of them as anything but predominantly Second World or at least closer to it than the First World. I know the terms don't apply today, but to me the West are the countries that historically opposed the Soviet bloc.

If that's your definition of "west" then fine, but that's not the traditional definition of west. I think you're confusing "west" with first world (USA and allies, including Japan), second world (USSR and allies, including China), third world (non-alligned states during hte cold war).

This is huntington's definition of "civilizations," largely based around the cultural history of the population, religion, and maybe race. There is some flexibility in it and some exceptions (he lists Israel, Japan, Haiti, the anglophone carribean, and Ethiopia as their own "mini-civilizations"). But the biggies are west, orthodox (think eastern europe), Islamic, Sinic (think China and some of its neighboring countries), Buddhist (which he argues is small and not that important), Hindu, African, Latin American as the big ones, with the anglophone carribean (think Jamaica and hte like), Japan, Ethiopia, Israel, and Haiti as being unique enough that they could be categorized as unique or in various civilizations. I have my own personal issues with some nations and their classifications (I think the pacific nations should be their own thing), but I think generally they fit relatively similar cultural models, though I don't subscribe to the idea that cultures are inevitably set to fight each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations#/media/File:Clash_of_Civilizations_mapn2.png

Latin America is its own thing IMO, but it's got its hisotrical links to the west. I'd

 

[VivaRevolution]

"If you X you might be racist"

Why use such a pathetic cickbait format?

For clicks.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Let's not forget that some people don't even consider Greece, the birthplace of modern Western culture, or Italy, which exported that culture via Rome, as part of the West. So, I'm going to assume that Central and South America which are basically the outgrowth of Spain's culture, isn't considered the West either.

Of course, that's a strange perspective. The birthplaces of western culture aren't the West and the lineal outgrowths of western culture aren't the West.

Maybe it's a latitude thing. You can't be in the West if you're above a certain latitude?

Funny that we both went to Greece and Italy as points of debate.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

For clicks.

Checks out I guess