Do you agree with Firas Zahabi's flow training?

Danaher doesn't roll during those 12-14 hrs though. He's a talker and a coach to guys in the facility. He has admitted the rolling doesn't interest him anymore.
If someone needs this explained to them, I think you are wasting your time. How stupid do you have to be to think someone rolls for 12-14 hours a day?
 
It might not work for everyone, but it definitely sounds like a good strategy to me.

Zahabi is a smart dude, if I could I would train under him in a heartbeat.
 
Meanwhile, GSP"s bjj coach, John Danaher

"It is said that John would easily spend 12-14 hours a day at the gym working on his BJJ and his skills as a coach. Renzo is said to have said that John Danaher would spend Christmas Day on the mats if he were allowed."

danaher.jpg
Fact is, Danaher rolls his way to the gym, and then rolls back home. So make that 16 hours.
 
He mentions multiple times that he is a fan of Russian training methods, which he cites for a lot of his background evidence.

He is talking about the long term span of training as an athlete for a sport, let it be MMA, boxing, wrestling etc.

I agree that there is a range comprising a "sweet spot" in training frequency and intensity. IMO it is a place where the athlete, given their circumstances like age and recovery ability, are not being overstressed either physically or mentally.

Most of us are young and we can get away with pushing our body. There were a few weeks where I kept training grappling then striking back to back, and I would feel slight pains in my tendons when I was resting, but I was still able to keep going if I wanted to as I had to stop as I was doing this during vacation.

What he is talking about makes sense. GSP is old by MMA standards, for sure he trained harder in his early days as champion than he did leading up to his last fight. A lot of fighters have recently retired because their body is breaking down and they can't push it like they used to, unless they get on a complex of some black market supplements.

It's just the way that aging works.

Yeah GSP also often cites the Russian approach to combat sports.
 
What a bland statement....

He's simply saying don't go >70-% if you go for the LONG run. 5 miles was just an example.
Lol it's not a bland statement. He's saying that one-size-fits-all approaches to training don't work and he's right.

Take Conor for instance. He comes off as a guy who takes a measured approach to training. I think he would thrive under Firas, but disintegrate with AKA or Kings MMA.

On the other hand, someone like Khabib could not sustain a consistent grind if Firas told him or his training partners to pump the brakes
 
You have never trained with a world ranked Thai and i doubt you have ridden in a race like the Tour De France.
The best in the world don't train like a 'competitive cyclist' or a club thai. The best in the world at anything train longer hours, harder as well as smarter than the club level people you are talking about.
As i mentioned earlier, analysis of world champions is different from analysing Joe Schmo. Watch any documentary about the training of the top athletes in the world, and their training regimes are always insane.
The moment they study the top athletes in the world and conclude that flow training works best, then I'll agree. At the moment all evidence points to the opposite being true for world class athletes.

I don't have to watch documentaries, I've trained with 2 Olympic medalists and 3 world champions along with more national cyclists than I care to count. Just counting the group of people I still ride with regularly, there's a former world champion, 2 former national champs, and several other former pros & factory sponsored riders.

Now, the Tour de France and other Grand Tours are different, but you know what else is different? The Tour teams also have more drugs than a pharmacy, they literally have a multi-million dollar doping & medical program. When you have all those PEDs, specialists, and medical support, you can train in ways that simply aren't possible for a clean athlete.
 
After i listened to this I tried it with pull ups. Started with 2 set of 7, but every day. 7 is okay for me when i am out of shape. After two months I can do 4 sets of 9 pull ups in "flow" state without killing myself, pretty much do this now every day. I didnt get any weight though. Maybe like 2 kilos.

Edit. So yeah i can say I agree with and like this flow concept. It also applies to things like learning new languages and skills. A little bit, but every day.
Same here. I also applied that idea to pull ups and just enjoy doing more volume and before.
 
He is pretty much the Canadian Edmund.
I've never understood why people say he is a genius coach. He seems to teach his students to avoid the strengths of their opponent without focusing on implementing their own game. Thus you have GSP studiously avoiding the ground with Shields, despite beating up BJJ world champ Penn there. Rory MacDonald was an aggressive finisher until he went to Tristar and became an outside fighter going to decisions.(His bizarre rolling for leglocks strategy vs Wonderboy) It is pretty clear the positive effect a coach like Duane Ludwig has on his fighters, but what effect does Firas have?
 
maybe it depends on what you do during your off time that put the work that you put it back
 
I don't have to watch documentaries, I've trained with 2 Olympic medalists and 3 world champions along with more national cyclists than I care to count. Just counting the group of people I still ride with regularly, there's a former world champion, 2 former national champs, and several other former pros & factory sponsored riders.

Now, the Tour de France and other Grand Tours are different, but you know what else is different? The Tour teams also have more drugs than a pharmacy, they literally have a multi-million dollar doping & medical program. When you have all those PEDs, specialists, and medical support, you can train in ways that simply aren't possible for a clean athlete.

So what kind of cycling 'world champions' do you train with that aren't on steroids? None because this is the made up Internet world, and you don't train with any of them. If you do, name them.

You can easily find the training regimes of non imaginary world champions in every sport,both in print, film, interview and documentary form. Those aren't imaginary like your Internet stories.

Show me the comparison of world champs who train when they feel like it outnumbering those that train hard every hour they can, and you have a case.

Im open to information and ideas not internet stories.
 
Sure, but you do realize he means between camps right? He understands the need to raise intensity during camps to simulate the fight. You gas otherwise. Talks about it on the same podcast.
 
You can easily find the training regimes of non imaginary world champions in every sport,both in print, film, interview and documentary form. Those aren't imaginary like your Internet stories.

Show me the comparison of world champs who train when they feel like it outnumbering those that train hard every hour they can, and you have a case.

Im open to information and ideas not internet stories.

Lance Armstrong's training blocks
https://cyclingtips.com/2009/01/ahead-of-schedule/

Note that his lactate threshold is 450W.

Excerpts:
Over the past few weeks, Lance has been doing more back-to-back volume, meaning he’s been doing three-day blocks of 4-, 5-, and 6-hour rides. The intensity is steady and reasonable, right now he’s averaging between 200-230 watts for the duration of those rides. The idea behind the three-day training blocks is to build the kind of endurance needed to compete in stage races.

Around Christmas/New Year’s, Lance traveled to Kona, Hawaii for more training. He went out there he can continue putting in the miles, and I’m going to put him behind the motor for some motorpacing as well. With the Tour Down Under coming up quickly, a few hours of race-pace training behind the motor certainly wouldn’t hurt – well, at least it won’t hurt for me. Here’s what his pre-Tour Down Under training looks like:

December 29-31—3-day training block
3-4 hours daily at endurance pace staying below 315watts, climbs at 340-380watts

January 1: Recovery ride

Jan 2-4—-3 day training block
Day 1: 4 hours at endurance pace staying below 315watts, include 1hr at Tempo power, 350-380watts, low pedal cadence during Tempo (60-70rpm).

Day 2: 4 hours at endurance pace staying below 315watts, include 2-3 10-minute MuscleTension Intervals at 45-50rpm, uphill at 350-400watts with 8-10mins recovery between intervals.

Day 3: 4 hours at endurance pace staying below 315watts, include 1hr at Tempo power, 350-380watts, low pedal cadence during Tempo (60-70rpm).

January 5-6: Recovery rides

Jan 6-8—-3 day training block
Day 1: 5.5 hrs with 3 climbs of 15-30minutes at 380-420watts, last 60mins behind motor for leg speed.

Day 2: 4.5 hours with 2-3climbs late in the ride of 15-30minutes at 380-420watts, last 60mins behind motor for leg speed.

Day 3: 4 hours at endurance pace with 2 climbs of 15-30minutes at 380-420watts, last 60mins behind motor for leg speed.

January 9-10 —recovery rides, maybe on the TT bike
Day 1: Recovery ride
Day 2: Recovery ride

Note that he spends most of his time cruising around at well under his lactate threshold, he's not pushing hard on his aerobic limit on every ride, and he's not going hard for an entire ride.

Which is exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. The majority of training time is spent at a relatively easy pace, even Lance Armstrong isn't cranking out max efforts on every training ride, and his easy days outnumber his hard days. You wanted data, you just got it.
 
It is called periodization, people have been doing it for decades
 
Lance Armstrong's training blocks
https://cyclingtips.com/2009/01/ahead-of-schedule/

Note that his lactate threshold is 450W.

Excerpts:


Note that he spends most of his time cruising around at well under his lactate threshold, he's not pushing hard on his aerobic limit on every ride, and he's not going hard for an entire ride.

Which is exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. The majority of training time is spent at a relatively easy pace, even Lance Armstrong isn't cranking out max efforts on every training ride, and his easy days outnumber his hard days. You wanted data, you just got it.

Lactate threshold is when your body has to stop. It doesn't mean that's the level you perform at during competition.

Armstrong trains 4-5 hours a day at a highly intense pace, to a set structured regime, even riding on his days off. That's not Flow training. (only training when your body/you feel like it)

Same goes for almost every world champ in every sport.
 
I meaaaann... kinda

You could say fighting is a craft. Like playing an instrument. They say being relaxed makes you more creative.

Being tense can ruin you’re attempt at anything. Even weightlifting. Sometimes it takes a while for peoples form to “settle” because they’re trying so hard and the tension is ruining their timing and posture.

Especially in things like boxing. If you’re redlining all the time you’re not going to be slick or creative and so much of succes depends on finding the right move to make.

Being tense also makes you more tired. Relaxing a little will help with cardio and making more intelligent decisions.

There’s something anxious about training very hard. Like you’re trying to rush progress.

“Let the game come to you.”
 
Lactate threshold is when your body has to stop. It doesn't mean that's the level you perform at during competition.

Armstrong trains 4-5 hours a day at a highly intense pace, to a set structured regime, even riding on his days off. That's not Flow training. (only training when your body/you feel like it)

Same goes for almost every world champ in every sport.

1) You don't know what a lactate threshold is
2) You can't do math
3) You fail to understand both the video posted in the OP and the article I posted

I see no reason to continue a discussion with you.
 
1) You don't know what a lactate threshold is
2) You can't do math
3) You fail to understand both the video posted in the OP and the article I posted

I see no reason to continue a discussion with you.

Yes i do, I'm insanely good at math, and no I didn't.

You don't train with world champions, you realise you are wrong and are looking to bail out so have reverted to ad hominems.

It's cool though champ, keep up that Olympic level part time training and let us know how you get on with your next world class competiton which is scheduled for the 12th.......of never.

Icarus was a good documentary.
 
He's right on some level. Doing hard training sessions and then not giving your body enough time to recovery/repair itself will increase your likehood of injury. But that's pretty much all I agree on.

Everyone is different I suppose. I run 6-10 miles per day- 5 days a week on top of weight lifting and martial arts and I feel great. Where as one of my friend cannot run more than 2-3 times a week without being completely exhausted and in pain.

It's all about knowing your limits. There are weeks where I am in pain/fatigue so I won't run at all until I feel complete and other times where I've gone everyday for 6 months straight.

And I definitely don't agree with 2 miles 3 days a week is just as good as doing 5 mile sessions at equal pace.
 
Idk I see some pretty lame flow training. I totally get what firas is saying and agree with him but some of this “flow” shit I see people do at the gym makes me roll my eyes like come on. Almost headed towards that fake martial arts sorta junk, I’m all for keeping it loose and imaginative but keep it realistic and practical.
 
Who did train that way except him? All p4p best fighters have their own training methods and to say there is only one way to train should be proved by researches and stuff.
By the way it doesnt matter how u train when u are talented, just stay fit is enough (jones example).
Ur genes are only factor of ur perfomance

Your genes are the only factor? So someone doing nothing at all will be just as good as if they were training as hard they could?

It’s actually more like DBZ power levels. Training will make you stronger, (a little) faster etc but a human isn’t ever beating Freiza.
 
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