Do people really think the shoulder crank jones did was "CHEAP"?

[DysDave]

It was just a nonsensical statement to me, so I'm grateful that you explained your line of reasoning. I don't see the relevance in this context, however. The vast majority of people on Sherdog, even on the technique subforums, will never have a pro fight. Being "a sparring guy" isn't a valid put down in this crowd, since it's a much better background than the average.

I appreciate it, but in fairness he does have a point.

I've competed, but mostly in Judo. My background is Judo and Boxing, with MMA training being kind of rare (I don't have any good gyms near me in SK, and not the time to travel).

With a Judo mindset, I'm very respectful of the damage subs can do, and have had it hammered in over and over again to respect your opponents. When I started I hurt a couple of people through poor technique, and I've been hurt by beginners by similar poor technique.

The whole thing really is a bit of a strawman anyway, because like I said- I honestly can't think of a real example of people getting hurt without having their fair chance to get out. Wrist locks and finger locks are banned, and most large joints will take a while to lock in. Most breaks result from stubbornness, not poor technique- and Palhares is a refusal to let go after the tap, which again isn't what's being discussed.

At the highest level, you have to be prepared to get hurt to be the best, so yeah. These guys know what they're getting into.

 

[LiverpunchKO]

Same as oblique kicks. Still legal but a bit dirty because it had the intention to injure. It's like jones is trolling us all. People equating that as a submission hold are fools. It wasn't a "hold" as holds are supposed to be maintained, giving chance for a tap. It was just one hard crank jones used to target the shoulder joint.

 

[xMaxPower]

nothing wrong with it. I applaud his creativity.

I do not like his extended fingers. you shouldnt be allowed to have your fingers out like that in a fight.

I kind of get where people are coming from though. a lot of the things jones does, it would be a shame if a fight had to end because of it. i dont no about anyone else, but i dont want to see a fight end with an oblique kick to the knee, poke to the eye, or that shoulder crank.

 

[loisestrad]

Same as oblique kicks. Still legal but a bit dirty because it had the intention to injure. It's like jones is trolling us all. People equating that as a submission hold are fools. It wasn't a "hold" as holds are supposed to be maintained, giving chance for a tap. It was just one hard crank jones used to target the shoulder joint.

It's not point fighting. Every single move SHOULD have the intention to injure. That's what it, basically, comes down to. Be that injury a concussion due to a ko, a broken leg due to kicks, whatever.

 

[Dramacydal]

It is a legitimate technique that I have no problem with.

The problem now is that Jones's reputation as a dirty fighter has everyone putting his every move under the microscope.

Yes, he's dirty - but not everything he does is cheap. The oblique kicks, using his reach and the crank are all fine. Putting his fingers in people's eyes, the headbutt and the 12-6 elbows that got him DQd are all either illegal or super dirty though.

 

[Goodfella86]

nothing wrong with it. it's how mir tapped pete Williams

 

[LiverpunchKO]

It's not point fighting. Every single move SHOULD have the intention to injure. That's what it, basically, comes down to. Be that injury a concussion due to a ko, a broken leg due to kicks, whatever.

Never said it was point fighting. My point was, frank mir did the same thing, but it was maintained, not dynamic. If it was cranked hard enough to injure glover, he wouldn't have time to tap. I know it's legal and all, but as a physical therapist, I've seen the extent of injury joint manipulation so like these make. Can be recurrent and career-ending.

 

[eon001]

No different than escaping an arm bar or foot stomps imo. It's a fight, you need to inflict damage. More Jones nit picking hating.

 

[eon001]

Never said it was point fighting. My point was, frank mir did the same thing, but it was maintained, not dynamic. If it was cranked hard enough to injure glover, he wouldn't have time to tap. I know it's legal and all, but as a physical therapist, I've seen the extent of injury joint manipulation so like these make. Can be recurrent and career-ending.

Disagree with your logic. You know what else is dynamic? a lunging left hook. Shame on Mark Hunt for breaking Struves jaw in 3 places.

 

[TeamSpaceMonkey]

No. It's a legit move.

 

[LiverpunchKO]

Disagree with your logic. You know what else is dynamic? a lunging left hook. Shame on Mark Hunt for breaking Struves jaw in 3 places.

Not arguing it should be banned. It's legal, we both know it. I'm more focused on the health risk cranks like those do. More career-threatening than a broken jaw btw.

 

[Belmont Bomber]

To the people who think its dirty..... Go watch another sport!!!

 

[dmwalking]

I'm a Jones fan. I didn't like the shoulder crank. I didn't like the eye pokes. I'm over the kicks to the knees. IMO guys know it's coming. It's their responsibility to check it. Same with the hand in the face. Slap the hand away. Bob and weave. The shoulder crank was cheap though.

 

[Belmont Bomber]

Not arguing it should be banned. It's legal, we both know it. I'm more focused on the health risk cranks like those do. More career-threatening than a broken jaw btw.

Your the mma james toney of sherdog

 

[LiverpunchKO]

Your the mma james toney of sherdog

We probably have different opinions so let's just agree to disagree rather than call people names like childish idiots. I'd rather watch fighters fight , trying to end things via KO or sub rather than injuring opponents.

 

[Belmont Bomber]

We probably have different opinions so let's just agree to disagree rather than call people names like childish idiots. I'd rather watch fighters fight , trying to end things via KO or sub rather than injuring opponents.

Then why watch mma instead of another combat sport where you can save your bleeding heart ?

 

[lfd0311]

Are we talking the one from a standing position in the first round? I used to to do that all the time in wrestling, it's very effective, and is going to hurt exactly nobody.

 

[bonghead420]

I was rooting for Glover but i have no problem with it. I thought it was very clever.

 

[lfd0311]

We probably have different opinions so let's just agree to disagree rather than call people names like childish idiots. I'd rather watch fighters fight , trying to end things via KO or sub rather than injuring opponents.

seriously? Go watch dancing with the stars, Nobody was going to get injured by that

 

[Author]

Legal, so who cares. What I think is funny are the fans coming to his defense when other people dare call him a dirty fighter. Like, who gives a shit?

For every person talking about go watch another sport, there should be someone told to go live in another country if they can't handle freedom of speech.

The shoulder crank is beautiful. It'll make people think twice about being lackadaisical against the fence. But the finger jabs to the eye? When it's pretty clear he's intending to do that "until warned" ? That shits gotta go. Resting your hand on the guy's forehead I have no problem with, and is kind of hilarious if it's someone not named Gus who would just punch your exposed face, but breaking the rules is pathetic. Especially if you don't need to.