do any of you use the philly shell defense??

[basisdaman]

not really sure what it is...they seem to really emphasize it in the video game fight night...anyone use it effectively?

 

[sugarboyae]

its balling up using lots of hooked and uppercuts

 

[L.I.N.E**]

not really sure what it is...they seem to really emphasize it in the video game fight night...anyone use it effectively?

I could never get used to it. It was an uncomfortable guard for me.

 

[Sinister]

Here's a little video of Floyd's style defense as opposed to Winky Wright's high-guard defense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gQDq7bgvrY

James Toney uses it as well, here's a round of his fight with Jirov, watch what he does when Jirov gets him on the ropes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66qLo0fVyxg

Hopkins uses it, too. Watch how he defends here against Tarver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uawi5ueyiI4

I use it myself and it's pretty fun but risky. You have to have a good eye and good instincts, as well as timing and a quick counter-punch (or just balls enough to throw when you're being attacked).

 

[JayOliver]

Here's a little video of Floyd's style defense as opposed to Winky Wright's high-guard defense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gQDq7bgvrY

James Toney uses it as well, here's a round of his fight with Jirov, watch what he does when Jirov gets him on the ropes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66qLo0fVyxg

Hopkins uses it, too. Watch how he defends here against Tarver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uawi5ueyiI4

I use it myself and it's pretty fun but risky. You have to have a good eye and good instincts, as well as timing and a quick counter-punch (or just balls enough to throw when you're being attacked).

James Toney's defense is so good that he hardly ever gets hit flush. Sometimes I like to just watch his old cruiserweight fights on ESPN Classic where he just murders guys with his technique. He'll fight off the ropes just like he did with Jirov, it's f'n beautiful.

Kabuki just out of curiousity when you're using the shell what's the hardest parts to pick up? I read in an interview with Toney that he used to get roughed up in the gym when first started trying those things out that he does so well today. Is it timing the counterpunches? Sparring/fighting guys with certain styles? Leaving yourself open to certain punches?

 

[Bamaispriceless]

Yeah, when I was playing fightnight round 3 the announcer was constantly talking about the "Philly Shell defense", I have always wondered what it is.

 

[devante]

to me the style lends itself to people w/a certain physical skillset in regards to upperbody mobility/timing/handspeed; if u don't have those things u won't be able to be eff.

u don't necessarily nee to be exp or fast; but def quick and fluid.. slower stockier muscular types usually don't use it to well for lack of those phys skills.

i would think the hard part on using it, is countering back when someone opens up, learning the timing/spacing... against skilled aggressive fighters the tech can break down if u can't take the pressure.

 

[Aluminum Kam]

I was under the impression that toney, and Mayweather doesnt use the Philly Shell, he uses the Shoulder Roll.

B-Hop does use the Philly Shell though

 

[deadlyshaolin]

I practiced it tonight extensively and found it to be pretty effective. I might incorporate it into my game.

OT: Karo's striking looked really good tonight.

 

[Sinister]

I was under the impression that toney, and Mayweather doesnt use the Philly Shell, he uses the Shoulder Roll.

B-Hop does use the Philly Shell though

Philly shell = shoulder-roll.

Kabuki just out of curiousity when you're using the shell what's the hardest parts to pick up? I read in an interview with Toney that he used to get roughed up in the gym when first started trying those things out that he does so well today. Is it timing the counterpunches? Sparring/fighting guys with certain styles? Leaving yourself open to certain punches?

You know what's the most limiting thing? People who are scared shitless of this style. I've been told or asked many many times not to use it, and almost no one has ever given me ONE viable reason I shouldn't. A lot of people are confused by it and just plain don't like to have to face the adversity it presents.

Now that being said the hardest thing to master is jabbing from the hip. It's like quick-drawing a gun. You have to be able to throw a solid crisp jab from low, or a very fast flip-jab (also called the up-jab). Once you can do that everything else falls into place.

 

[Gio1]

Philly shell = shoulder-roll.



You know what's the most limiting thing? People who are scared shitless of this style. I've been told or asked many many times not to use it, and almost no one has ever given me ONE viable reason I shouldn't. A lot of people are confused by it and just plain don't like to have to face the adversity it presents.

Now that being said the hardest thing to master is jabbing from the hip. It's like quick-drawing a gun. You have to be able to throw a solid crisp jab from low, or a very fast flip-jab (also called the up-jab). Once you can do that everything else falls into place.

I would have to agree with u on the jab. Ive been trying out the Philly Shell and everything is going well exept for the jab. I can throw a quick jab, but it will have no steam behind it.
I guess i need to keep working on it.:icon_conf

 

[basisdaman]

Here's a little video of Floyd's style defense as opposed to Winky Wright's high-guard defense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gQDq7bgvrY

James Toney uses it as well, here's a round of his fight with Jirov, watch what he does when Jirov gets him on the ropes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66qLo0fVyxg

Hopkins uses it, too. Watch how he defends here against Tarver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uawi5ueyiI4

I use it myself and it's pretty fun but risky. You have to have a good eye and good instincts, as well as timing and a quick counter-punch (or just balls enough to throw when you're being attacked).

thanks for the breakdown...very interesting

 

[basisdaman]

Here's a little video of Floyd's style defense as opposed to Winky Wright's high-guard defense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gQDq7bgvrY

at 1:30 of that vid it shows what i think (i dont know anything about this defense, but it seems like this is it) is a great example of philly shell defense...thanks for the imformative post king kabuki...i love it when mods come through

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

You know what's the most limiting thing? People who are scared shitless of this style. I've been told or asked many many times not to use it, and almost no one has ever given me ONE viable reason I shouldn't. A lot of people are confused by it and just plain don't like to have to face the adversity it presents.

Now that being said the hardest thing to master is jabbing from the hip. It's like quick-drawing a gun. You have to be able to throw a solid crisp jab from low, or a very fast flip-jab (also called the up-jab). Once you can do that everything else falls into place.

I've never really tried this, because I am under the impression that this type of fighting is something you have to learn properly from somebody who really understands it. And my boxing instructor is a very traditional type of guy.

However, I can't help but play with it sometimes. It has some similarity to the TKD stance.

What is your advice? I tend to think that this is one of these things that are better left for really good guys with coaches who specialise in this type of defense. My reflexes and footwork are actually my strong points, so it COULD work for me, but I have nobody to learn it from. If you are good at bobbing/slipping punches and have good reflexes, is this something you can pick up on your own?

 

[Sinister]

What is your advice? I tend to think that this is one of these things that are better left for really good guys with coaches who specialise in this type of defense. My reflexes and footwork are actually my strong points, so it COULD work for me, but I have nobody to learn it from. If you are good at bobbing/slipping punches and have good reflexes, is this something you can pick up on your own?

Well here's the thing with that EEG. Someone I trust once told me that no one should ever change your style. A good Boxing Coach is going to let you do work, observe you (granted you know the basics), and simply help you fill in your weaknesses and heighten your strengths. What that translates into is that you fight how you fight, you know?

Very few guys have made it to the top using this style, or done well enough to put it into any situation, but IMO that has a lot to do with not getting to practice it a whole lot and being discouraged generally to do so (think about how that pertains to your training). At that point it's very difficult to believe in it as being viable, and able to be well-rounded. But almost always someone who has it on the brain or uses those kinds of techniques naturally in the way they move will go back to it regardless of what else they learn.

Learning it I think requires more thinking than anything else. Like any other position or style. You look at yourself and say "where/how am I weak, and how can I compensate for that without sacrificing my strengths?" That and getting in there with people who WANT to work against it with you. The perk for them being able to learn where it's weaknesses are. Like anything else, practice. It's a little intricate, yes. But there's also only SO much to it.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Well here's the thing with that EEG. Someone I trust once told me that no one should ever change your style. A good Boxing Coach is going to let you do work, observe you (granted you know the basics), and simply help you fill in your weaknesses and heighten your strengths. What that translates into is that you fight how you fight, you know?

I completely agree with you. On the other hand, it is also honest when a coach tells you what HIS strengths and HIS weaknesses are. Often, there are styles THEY grew up with, and which they understand better than others, and they can teach them better than something else, you know what I mean?

My worry was that this especially applies to tricky styles, which I understand the philly shell to be.

Learning it I think requires more thinking than anything else. Like any other position or style. You look at yourself and say "where/how am I weak, and how can I compensate for that without sacrificing my strengths?" That and getting in there with people who WANT to work against it with you. The perk for them being able to learn where it's weaknesses are. Like anything else, practice. It's a little intricate, yes. But there's also only SO much to it.

This is why I was considering it. My boxing already borrows a lot from my TKD, especially when it comes to distance game, counter-striking, angles and reflexes. I felt that getting proficient with this defense (and it is very similar to one standard TKD stance where you have your forward arm down and your back arm up across your face) would help me even more in that respect.

I'm a bit torn on the issue. On the one hand, I approach boxing as something fresh, and am trying hard to learn it from the ground up, instead of modifying my TKD strikes. On the other hand, exploiting similarities like this one could add a whole dimension to both my boxing and my TKD, and blend together nicely.

I guess I'll try to play with it in sparring more often and see where it takes me. Perhaps it will "click", and I'll concentrate on it more.

 

[Sinister]

I completely agree with you. On the other hand, it is also honest when a coach tells you what HIS strengths and HIS weaknesses are. Often, there are styles THEY grew up with, and which they understand better than others, and they can teach them better than something else, you know what I mean?

My worry was that this especially applies to tricky styles, which I understand the philly shell to be.

That much is true, but that's why we have the freedom of choice. If a Coach's style just doesn't suit you that's fine, you can still think he's a good Coach, just not for you because of what your natural abilities are. Too many guys don't understand this principal and often stick with guys who don't much get them anywheres.

I guess I'll try to play with it in sparring more often and see where it takes me. Perhaps it will "click", and I'll concentrate on it more.

Yeah I think this is the right approach. You get beat up a bunch, then it's not clicking. lol You do well with it and feel strong, then it's working well.

Doesn't mean you can't learn standard Boxing though from a more conventional stance. One thing some of the lower-level Philly Shell guys are criticised a lot for is not being able to adapt. If you watch the Mayweather/Judah fight Floyd actually had to come forward with both hands up against Zab and sort of abandon the style altogether to win. So him having more tools in the toolbox was certainly an asset in that scenario.

 

[crooked]

i love using the philly shell. its a fun style cause its not textbook. i remember seeing Cyborg versus Manhoef and cyborg was using the philly shell.

 

[Brendon Katz]

That much is true, but that's why we have the freedom of choice. If a Coach's style just doesn't suit you that's fine, you can still think he's a good Coach, just not for you because of what your natural abilities are. Too many guys don't understand this principal and often stick with guys who don't much get them anywheres.



Yeah I think this is the right approach. You get beat up a bunch, then it's not clicking. lol You do well with it and feel strong, then it's working well.

Doesn't mean you can't learn standard Boxing though from a more conventional stance. One thing some of the lower-level Philly Shell guys are criticised a lot for is not being able to adapt. If you watch the Mayweather/Judah fight Floyd actually had to come forward with both hands up against Zab and sort of abandon the style altogether to win. So him having more tools in the toolbox was certainly an asset in that scenario.

talkin about that, iv tried the philly shell type defence for a few weeks after that hackleman stance discussion and i didnt really get anywhere. i was thinkin maybe it doesnt suit guys who need to get close and work on the inside? but anyway, last week i was getting a bit frustrated with trying to get my defence sharp and i decided just for one session i was going to just go with what came naturally - my standard 'crazy monkey' turtle kinda defence, and man i blew guys away. it was very, very much easier to use my standard defence than the philly shell defence. interestingly, i was hardly slipping or bobbing and weaving, but i was countering a LOT, against guys up to 6' taller than me, because i found it very easy to get inside their timing and land shots. point of this rant was that the philly shell seems to shoot my timing thru the roof, so i think im going to spend a week in every 4 working on it just to bolster the rest of my game. timing > everything imo.

 

[Sinister]

You mean your defense is more naturally like Winky Wright's?

That's tough because it's hard to be offensive when the guard is so tight. So I can see how chaning stances helps your timing more. You also may want to look at the jab of not only Wright himself, but Ike Quartay (the reason they call him "Bazooka") in his prime. With an initial punch like that it can dismantle a counter-defense and give you something very good to work behind from your more closed and tight guard.

If you mean you block more and actually do move your hands so the guard isn't so tight, then Alexis Arguello was one of the absolute Masters of that trick. A guy who actally pulled off parrying Wing-Chun style in fights.