Do American Fighters Lack Class?

Smokes said:
Tim still gets No Respect.
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Yup one of the best 140lbers of this generation and a class act through and through, even with all the hate he got for something he couldn't even control.
 
khan and brit boxers aren't the right examples to use, they talk plenty shit, they might sound a little more proper doing it but they talk shit (one of my best friends said he loved lennox lewis because "He sounds so smooth talking shit") your point about american fighters is right, young americans are way more entitled, spoiled, unparented and inundated with vile entertainment shit that they try to imitate, I don't get them, and i love how i see asians and white boys imitating their favorite rappers using the n word every 2 seconds, 40 years ago they'd have gotten their asses kicked for saying it once and they would learn their is nothing "hood" or street about them. The class thing wasn't always like this, or at least not publicly, just watch the old time fighters in interviews about upcoming fights, very respectful and humble, ali ruined that for us by making everyone think that was the way to act. Then, americans period are classeless and crass, even our homeless act like the world owes them everything and it does not take long for immigrants to pick up our vile ways. they become aggressive, money hungry, ignore their families and kids for jobs and become unhealthy off our lifestyle with a few years. Why people keep falling for the bullshit, I don't know. You want the toys? you got to deal with all the other bullshit.
 
FightGuyOpenMind said:
Have you ever watched an interview of an American fighter, and then a British fighter? They seem like they're not even in the same profession. I was watching an interview with Amir Khan, and he is articulate, well dressed, and his endeavors outside of the ring have been commendable. The man built an orphanage in Gambia; good on him.

Khan isn't the only one: Eubanks Sr, Golovkin, Pacquiao, and Lomachenko all are names that come to mind for bad asses who are at the same time respectable.

This may have some crossover with the role models thread from earlier, but do American fighters lack class? Is it a cultural thing?

The last no nonsense, gentleman fighter I can think of that was mainstream is Sugar Ray Leonard. I lied, Ward and Spence Jr as well, but Sugar Ray for mainstream success.

Thoughts?
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Tim Bradley is a class act. Danny Garcia seems like a decent kid. Shawn Porter seems to be a good guy.
 
mozfonky said:
khan and brit boxers aren't the right examples to use, they talk plenty shit, they might sound a little more proper doing it but they talk shit (one of my best friends said he loved lennox lewis because "He sounds so smooth talking shit") your point about american fighters is right, young americans are way more entitled, spoiled, unparented and inundated with vile entertainment shit that they try to imitate, I don't get them, and i love how i see asians and white boys imitating their favorite rappers using the n word every 2 seconds, 40 years ago they'd have gotten their asses kicked for saying it once and they would learn their is nothing "hood" or street about them. The class thing wasn't always like this, or at least not publicly, just watch the old time fighters in interviews about upcoming fights, very respectful and humble, ali ruined that for us by making everyone think that was the way to act. Then, americans period are classeless and crass, even our homeless act like the world owes them everything and it does not take long for immigrants to pick up our vile ways. they become aggressive, money hungry, ignore their families and kids for jobs and become unhealthy off our lifestyle with a few years. Why people keep falling for the bullshit, I don't know. You want the toys? you got to deal with all the other bullshit.
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Everyone keeps saying Ali was the downfall or had a part? lol He promoted the fight, but I never heard him use profanity. He never dressed anything other than professional. He was loud, sure, but look what he was up against. No one gave him a chance, he was the underdog against Liston, Frazier, Foreman. All of these big burly men, and here comes pretty boy Ali with his dancing lol. Ali put a smile on most everyone's face, and the mass majority of his opponents had favorable things to say about him. Have you ever seen the documentary "Facing Ali"? I humbly disagree in that regard because I didn't see fault in Ali in that way. He basically spoke nursery style rhymes for fighting. lol They were clever, and witty. He never spoke about tea bagging anyone. Although the fighter that I'm referring to isn't American, yet Americans love his behavior.

Beyond the mention of Ali, I agree with you. I can concur with that notion that British fighters can be the same way. People are people. I was in fact not attempting to make it a divide. What I was saying is that I observe it appearing to become more, and more obscene in the Americans fighters who are being shown acting this way. At what point do we say it's enough? If fighters act that way, they'll attract that element.

Did you see Tank Davis slap the camera phone out of that fan's hand who wanted to get a selfie with him? Poor guy. Why target him like that, he's just a man probably from a simple background who is excited to be around you and that is how you behave? Tell him no pics if you don't want any, but to slap his phone out of his hand?

Yeah, the priorities can be messed up. Perhaps that is why the fighters act that way, just a product of the environment? Interesting take on it. Thank you.
 
Guys like Mayweather and Broner wouldn't act all obnoxious and ridiculous publicly if they weren't repeatedly rewarded for their antics over time and given greater attention. If acting like a dickhead meant that people wanted to watch you less than if you acted more gracious, then they would be less dickheadish. If you get more cash and attention from being a dickhead then you'll keep being a dickhead.

That kind of shitty behaviour is likely less marketable in certain areas outside of the Anglosphere. Different cultures tend to have somewhat different ideas about how men should express themselves and what's acceptable behaviour, so when you're a dickhead who's a mouthy cunt in front of an audience of Kazakhstanis, maybe it just wouldn't resonate with them in any way, and they might just be turned off from it because maybe their culture better respects a kind of stoicism over brash WWE style machismo.
 
Minowafanatic said:
Guys like Mayweather and Broner wouldn't act all obnoxious and ridiculous publicly if they weren't repeatedly rewarded for their antics over time and given greater attention. If acting like a dickhead meant that people wanted to watch you less than if you acted more gracious, then they would be less dickheadish. If you get more cash and attention from being a dickhead then you'll keep being a dickhead.

That kind of shitty behaviour is likely less marketable in certain areas outside of the Anglosphere. Different cultures tend to have somewhat different ideas about how men should express themselves and what's acceptable behaviour, so when you're a dickhead who's a mouthy cunt in front of an audience of Kazakhstanis, maybe it just wouldn't resonate with them in any way, and they might just be turned off from it because maybe their culture better respects a kind of stoicism over brash WWE style machismo.
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Yeah, that's an interesting take. It is a way to stay relevant.
All publicity is good publicity. As long as you're relevant then it's okay. I can see it as a marketing tool. Fight sports have turned WWE as of late. The stories outside of the ring are starting to become as large as the fights themselves it seems.
 
FightGuyOpenMind said:
Have you ever watched an interview of an American fighter, and then a British fighter? They seem like they're not even in the same profession. I was watching an interview with Amir Khan, and he is articulate, well dressed, and his endeavors outside of the ring have been commendable. The man built an orphanage in Gambia; good on him.
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Khan's done plenty of charity work and helped support his local community a lot. I first started boxing at a community centre gym he founded. He makes a conscious effort towards being a role model which I don't think is inherently a positive or a negative thing, but it's part of why he lets himself get involved with these different projects.

He's definitely no saint though. He's been in street fights and been caught speeding a bunch of times, maybe drink driving, despite hitting a man in his 50s who later died, in part because of the trauma from the injuries he sustained. And there was the whole ridiculous online stuff where he was publicly fueding with his wife over twitter recently. He's lucky enough to have a very good support network around him that steers him towards making positive decisions, but he himself is immature.
 
Minowafanatic said:
Khan's done plenty of charity work and helped support his local community a lot. I first started boxing at a community centre gym he founded. He makes a conscious effort towards being a role model which I don't think is inherently a positive or a negative thing, but it's part of why he lets himself get involved with these different projects.

He's definitely no saint though. He's been in street fights and been caught speeding a bunch of times, maybe drink driving, despite hitting a man in his 50s who later died, in part because of the trauma from the injuries he sustained. And there was the whole ridiculous online stuff where he was publicly fueding with his wife over twitter recently. He's lucky enough to have a very good support network around him that steers him towards making positive decisions, but he himself is immature.
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I'll trade you Broner for Khan lol. I'm all for being who you are, but honestly, I feel if Broner would really channel himself he would be a champion. He is always in some controversy, and is becoming unreliable.

All of that ability wasted. I was a fan of Broner when they were saying he was the next Floyd, now he is this revolving joke. Breaks my heart. He is his own man at the end of the day.
 
I know as much about ali as anyone, but the influence wasn't all positive. Like any original, imitators think "hey that's a great idea" and they do the same thing with usually embarrassing or distasteful results. Elvis spawned a generation of leg shaking jackasses, most, forgotten about now. The beatles spawned moptops who wore suits, some of them had some classic hits but only the anti-beatles really had something to become memorable.

FightGuyOpenMind said:
Everyone keeps saying Ali was the downfall or had a part? lol He promoted the fight, but I never heard him use profanity. He never dressed anything other than professional. He was loud, sure, but look what he was up against. No one gave him a chance, he was the underdog against Liston, Frazier, Foreman. All of these big burly men, and here comes pretty boy Ali with his dancing lol. Ali put a smile on most everyone's face, and the mass majority of his opponents had favorable things to say about him. Have you ever seen the documentary "Facing Ali"? I humbly disagree in that regard because I didn't see fault in Ali in that way. He basically spoke nursery style rhymes for fighting. lol They were clever, and witty. He never spoke about tea bagging anyone. Although the fighter that I'm referring to isn't American, yet Americans love his behavior.

Beyond the mention of Ali, I agree with you. I can concur with that notion that British fighters can be the same way. People are people. I was in fact not attempting to make it a divide. What I was saying is that I observe it appearing to become more, and more obscene in the Americans fighters who are being shown acting this way. At what point do we say it's enough? If fighters act that way, they'll attract that element.

Did you see Tank Davis slap the camera phone out of that fan's hand who wanted to get a selfie with him? Poor guy. Why target him like that, he's just a man probably from a simple background who is excited to be around you and that is how you behave? Tell him no pics if you don't want any, but to slap his phone out of his hand?

Yeah, the priorities can be messed up. Perhaps that is why the fighters act that way, just a product of the environment? Interesting take on it. Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
Minowafanatic said:
Guys like Mayweather and Broner wouldn't act all obnoxious and ridiculous publicly if they weren't repeatedly rewarded for their antics over time and given greater attention. If acting like a dickhead meant that people wanted to watch you less than if you acted more gracious, then they would be less dickheadish. If you get more cash and attention from being a dickhead then you'll keep being a dickhead.

That kind of shitty behaviour is likely less marketable in certain areas outside of the Anglosphere. Different cultures tend to have somewhat different ideas about how men should express themselves and what's acceptable behaviour, so when you're a dickhead who's a mouthy cunt in front of an audience of Kazakhstanis, maybe it just wouldn't resonate with them in any way, and they might just be turned off from it because maybe their culture better respects a kind of stoicism over brash WWE style machismo.
Click to expand...
in boxing it works because people who don't like you will watch hoping you get your ass beat, Ali said that a million times "you paid 400 dollars to see it haha" (to a ringsider at the liston fight). On another forum, in another arguement, we are speaking of a musicial artist who fell way short of his potential, commercially. We are debating why, one of the main reasons people come up with is that the guy was too mouthy (yes, Ali was his role model too) and that only made people not buy his albums. doesn't work with everything. Being mouthy makes you noticeable too, I know from exp., sometimes that can make your life hard. It's like the story of the zebras, when a zebra is marked to distinguish it to a wildlife expert, it becomes marked to the predators too, sometimes, attention is not good. the saying of publicity has truth but not 100 percent truth, many people have been ruined by some scandal that got attention and ruined their careers.
 
mozfonky said:
in boxing it works because people who don't like you will watch hoping you get your ass beat, Ali said that a million times "you paid 400 dollars to see it haha" (to a ringsider at the liston fight). On another forum, in another arguement, we are speaking of a musicial artist who fell way short of his potential, commercially. We are debating why, one of the main reasons people come up with is that the guy was too mouthy (yes, Ali was his role model too) and that only made people not buy his albums. doesn't work with everything. Being mouthy makes you noticeable too, I know from exp., sometimes that can make your life hard. It's like the story of the zebras, when a zebra is marked to distinguish it to a wildlife expert, it becomes marked to the predators too, sometimes, attention is not good. the saying of publicity has truth but not 100 percent truth, many people have been ruined by some scandal that got attention and ruined their careers.
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It's like a balancing act. I agree.
 
mozfonky said:
I know as much about ali as anyone, but the influence wasn't all positive. Like any original, imitators think "hey that's a great idea" and they do the same thing with usually embarrassing or distasteful results. Elvis spawned a generation of leg shaking jackasses, most, forgotten about now. The beatles spawned moptops who wore suits, some of them had some classic hits but only the anti-beatles really had something to become memorable.
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Like Gucci Mane pioneering mumble rap. It has become something largely debated today, whereas Gucci was mostly well received or tolerated lol. Things go bad with time, something can be lost.

First generation creates it. Second generation enjoys it. Third generation destroys it.
 
I think a better question is : "What percentage of humanity lacks class?"

The percentages may vary according to region, race, sex etc... but generally, being classy is an exception, not a rule.
10% very classy, 15% absolute gutter trash, 75% of varying degrees in between.

You could argue very different percentages, sometimes humans seem about 90% cunt.
 
Lol what?

Pacquiao is not a classy fighter.
 
CatchnShoot said:
I think a better question is : "What percentage of humanity lacks class?"

The percentages may vary according to region, race, sex etc... but generally, being classy is an exception, not a rule.
10% very classy, 15% absolute gutter trash, 75% of varying degrees in between.

You could argue very different percentages, sometimes humans seem about 90% cunt.
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i'd say most people are socialized to be "nice", "polite" or classy but they really aren't. how many folks have you known that when you really got to know them were complete assholes? I've known many.
 
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