Dillon "Cringe Master" Danis will face Jake Shields at SUG4

[SKITZADACTYL]

Clearly you have absolutely no idea who Jake Shields is.

good thing i don't care about danis lmao

and from what i'm reading the match was really competitive and jake edged it at overtime.

 

[mataleaos]

good thing i don't care about danis lmao

and from what i'm reading the match was really competitive and jake edged it at overtime.

The overtimes were competitive. They each escaped each overtime inning in less than 25 seconds. I want to say the time Jake won in escape time was less than 5 seconds. During regulation Jake shot 2 or 3 singles legs that were countered by arm-in guillotines. Later on Danis hit a flying guillotine that he rode to mount and it looked like it was close to finishing the match but Shields was able to hold out. They ended back up on the feet shortly after and Shields pulled guard in the final minute and Danis got to outside ashi and locked up a heel hook in the final 5-10 seconds of the match.

 

[SKITZADACTYL]

The overtimes were competitive. They each escaped each overtime inning in less than 25 seconds. I want to say the time Jake won in escape time was less than 5 seconds. During regulation Jake shot 2 or 3 singles legs that were countered by arm-in guillotines. Later on Danis hit a flying guillotine that he rode to mount and it looked like it was close to finishing the match but Shields was able to hold out. They ended back up on the feet shortly after and Shields pulled guard in the final minute and Danis got to outside ashi and locked up a heel hook in the final 5-10 seconds of the match.

i heard danis was more aggressive with sub attempts, people seem to be acting like he got embarrassed.

 

[randomg1t]

i heard danis was more aggressive with sub attempts, people seem to be acting like he got embarrassed.

everyone is just relieved that the douchebag didn't win. we'd never hear the end of it if he did.

no one in their right mind will shit on dillon's grappling ability, he is a world class competitor, but his imitation of conor is unnerving. he's doing his best to act like an obnoxious asshole, because he's seen where it brought mcgregor. of course people are going to rejoice when he loses, even if it's by half an inch. that's what happens when you play the heel.

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

i heard danis was more aggressive with sub attempts, people seem to be acting like he got embarrassed.

He said he was going to finish the fight and Jake was old and a bunch of other shit like take his head clean off.
The fact that it was that close and he lost should be embarrassing. Just another shit talker that should brush his shitty teeth

 

[yetanother]

he's doing his best to act like an obnoxious asshole, because he's seen where it brought mcgregor. l.

Didn't Dillon recently switch to trying to be over the top with it and try to be funny?

 

[trustdoesntrust]

He said he was going to finish the fight and Jake was old and a bunch of other shit like take his head clean off.
The fact that it was that close and he lost should be embarrassing. Just another shit talker that should brush his shitty teeth

Anybody watching that match would say that Dillon won the moral victory. Jake won via riding time, but did it by quickly rolling over into mount each time. During regulation, Dillon was was willing to wrestle with Jake, and got Jake in a serious guillotine attempt off a single leg counter that forced Jake to give up mount. Say what you want about his attitude, but Danis is the real deal as a grappler. He's improved mightily in the last couple years.

 

[Significance Deficit]

I think this ruleset is a joke and pretty much never consider anything that goes to OT a legitimate win in any other circumstance, but I don't like Danis so I'm going to ignore that and act as if Shields handled him dominantly here.

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

Anybody watching that match would say that Dillon won the moral victory. Jake won via riding time, but did it by quickly rolling over into mount each time. During regulation, Dillon was was willing to wrestle with Jake, and got Jake in a serious guillotine attempt off a single leg counter that forced Jake to give up mount. Say what you want about his attitude, but Danis is the real deal as a grappler. He's improved mightily in the last couple years.

Moral victory? ??

Shit someone forgot to get Danis is participation trophy?

Moral victory after talking all that shit and not being able to submit him doesn't exist.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Moral victory? ??

Shit someone forgot to get Danis is participation trophy?

Moral victory after talking all that shit and not big able to submit him doesn't exist.

He was the superior grappler overall, and held his own in the wrestling. I'm sure he would have preferred a sub, but this was hardly a setback for Danis. The guy is really good.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I think this ruleset is a joke and pretty much never consider anything that goes to OT a legitimate win in any other circumstance, but I don't like Danis so I'm going to ignore that and act as if Shields handled him dominantly here.

Yeah, I'm starting to feel the same way - nothing to do with this fight, just in general. I mean a guy can get run over but not subbed during regulation, and then start off in a dominant position that he didn't earn, and win from there. I remember the most recent Eddie Cummings vs Geo Martinez match in EBI, where Cummings had Geo in all kinds of danger the whole match, but got armbarred in OT. Meanwhile, during the actual match Geo was never going to get anywhere close to that position in order to finish. That's part of grappling, you have to achieve the positions that can give you the subs.

Sometimes the "right" guy wins (read: the guy who displayed dominance in the regulation portion) but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. I get it, they want a fun and submission-oriented way of breaking a tie, that avoids points or advantages. And I applaud them for that, and I think it has its merits. But it can also lead to some silly results.

As for this match, I think people are overselling Danis' performance a bit. He was definitely more active with sub attempts and that one guillotine was a legit threat. Shields got a couple of takedowns but didn't get anywhere near past the guard. I don't think the leglock attempt at the end was anywhere close. The OT rounds were close as well but Shields worked the rules better and escaped immediately almost every time. Neither man showed dominance but Jake won under this rule set.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Yeah, I'm starting to feel the same way - nothing to do with this fight, just in general. I mean a guy can get run over but not subbed during regulation, and then start off in a dominant position that he didn't earn, and win from there. I remember the most recent Eddie Cummings vs Geo Martinez match in EBI, where Cummings had Geo in all kinds of danger the whole match, but got armbarred in OT. Meanwhile, during the actual match Geo was never going to get anywhere close to that position in order to finish. That's part of grappling, you have to achieve the positions that can give you the subs.

Sometimes the "right" guy wins (read: the guy who displayed dominance in the regulation portion) but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. I get it, they want a fun and submission-oriented way of breaking a tie, that avoids points or advantages. And I applaud them for that, and I think it has its merits. But it can also lead to some silly results.

As for this match, I think people are overselling Danis' performance a bit. He was definitely more active with sub attempts and that one guillotine was a legit threat. Shields got a couple of takedowns but didn't get anywhere near past the guard. I don't think the leglock attempt at the end was anywhere close. The OT rounds were close as well but Shields worked the rules better and escaped immediately almost every time. Neither man showed dominance but Jake won under this rule set.

If this EBI ruleset is to continue, a must-change in my opinion is to broaden the scope of dominant OT positions, as Rolling over into mount is just not an escape. It also seems weird to limit riding time to back mount, a position that doesn't necessarily require "riding" in the wrestling sense.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

If this EBI ruleset is to continue, a must-change in my opinion is to broaden the scope of dominant OT positions, as Rolling over into mount is just not an escape. It also seems weird to limit riding time to back mount, a position that doesn't necessarily require "riding" in the wrestling sense.

Well, yeah, but that's just a name. We could call it "positional maintenance time" and it would mean the same thing. Maybe you would have to recover some kind of guard position in order to stop the clock? I dunno, this is just one of my gripes with the rule set (which I do love for other reasons). For example the EBI rules, in trying to avoid the IBJJF meta-gaming obsession with points and advantages for positional work, goes too far in the other direction by creating a rule set where position is literally meaningless aside from enabling a sub. Sweeps are meaningless, takedowns are meaningless, passes are only meaningful if you're looking to sub from there. Mount is practically meaningless. Getting mounted is practically meaningless. I agree that submission should be the goal, but in an ideal rule set these positions still should be considered dominant for reasons aside from submissions.

 

[Minnja]

Well, yeah, but that's just a name. We could call it "positional maintenance time" and it would mean the same thing. Maybe you would have to recover some kind of guard position in order to stop the clock? I dunno, this is just one of my gripes with the rule set (which I do love for other reasons). For example the EBI rules, in trying to avoid the IBJJF meta-gaming obsession with points and advantages for positional work, goes too far in the other direction by creating a rule set where position is literally meaningless aside from enabling a sub. Sweeps are meaningless, takedowns are meaningless, passes are only meaningful if you're looking to sub from there. Mount is practically meaningless. Getting mounted is practically meaningless. I agree that submission should be the goal, but in an ideal rule set these positions still should be considered dominant for reasons aside from submissions.

I agree and I think this is why some people were against this rule set when it stated getting very popular. I enjoy watching sub-only and EBI is fun but everything you said I agree with.

People will eventually start "gaming" the system to win. Idk how many if any are intentionally doing that but it shouldn't be surprising when it does become more obvious.

Points has its problems but I don't think you can really get away with being dominated but then end up winning unless it's by submission. In EBI and other sub-only you can be getting dominated but then win in OT by 1 second or something silly. I guess you can say their defense is better but if they were just defending he whole time doesn't that go against the whole sub-only mindset?

 

[Minnja]

If this EBI ruleset is to continue, a must-change in my opinion is to broaden the scope of dominant OT positions, as Rolling over into mount is just not an escape. It also seems weird to limit riding time to back mount, a position that doesn't necessarily require "riding" in the wrestling sense.

I agree with this too. Whenever we do positional sparring at my gym and say we start on the back, we don't consider the guy rolling into mount being an escape and they will keep going until the guy gets into half guard or some sort of guard/sweep/reversal. I'm sure many if not most gyms typically do the same thing

 

[rmongler]

Haven't actually watched it yet so im posting this without reading the thread, but i remember drafting a comment for some other thread somewhere that died that i don't think i ever actually got around to posting...

I got Shields over Danis through over-overtime ridingfest.

Miyao could probably sweep Faber all day, but thats just the thing; his game is optimized around sweeps for the ibjjf point fight, can he actually finish? I also see this one going to overtime, but not confident in predicting who takes it after that. Faber may well pull out a Mendes of his own, but i think Miyao is the safer bet here.

Combs is literally who to me. I say Durinho takes it.

Im vaguely aware of Perez, but i think Orchard takes this one too.

On the money? Hilariously contradicted? I'll be back shortly...


Edit: well that went about as expected.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Well, yeah, but that's just a name. We could call it "positional maintenance time" and it would mean the same thing. Maybe you would have to recover some kind of guard position in order to stop the clock? I dunno, this is just one of my gripes with the rule set (which I do love for other reasons). For example the EBI rules, in trying to avoid the IBJJF meta-gaming obsession with points and advantages for positional work, goes too far in the other direction by creating a rule set where position is literally meaningless aside from enabling a sub. Sweeps are meaningless, takedowns are meaningless, passes are only meaningful if you're looking to sub from there. Mount is practically meaningless. Getting mounted is practically meaningless. I agree that submission should be the goal, but in an ideal rule set these positions still should be considered dominant for reasons aside from submissions.

I don't think it's rules-gaming exactly, but rather just that competitors are doing what the EBI rules encourage, which is to go for risk-averse submission attacks. Yes, submission is the only way to win, but it is also the only way to lose, so competitors are far less urgent to sacrifice their safety. The OT offers a guaranteed neutral chance to win as long as you don't get submitted in regulation, so you're always going to default to 'don't get submitted!' when you sense danger, especially if the opponent is superior in skill and/or has a tricky guard.

 

[selfcritical]

Where the hell is Danis training for competition prep now?

 

[yetanother]

I agree with this too. Whenever we do positional sparring at my gym and say we start on the back, we don't consider the guy rolling into mount being an escape and they will keep going until the guy gets into half guard or some sort of guard/sweep/reversal. I'm sure many if not most gyms typically do the same thing

Mount is not a very offensive position in no gi for most people.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Yeah, I'm starting to feel the same way - nothing to do with this fight, just in general. I mean a guy can get run over but not subbed during regulation, and then start off in a dominant position that he didn't earn, and win from there. I remember the most recent Eddie Cummings vs Geo Martinez match in EBI, where Cummings had Geo in all kinds of danger the whole match, but got armbarred in OT. Meanwhile, during the actual match Geo was never going to get anywhere close to that position in order to finish. That's part of grappling, you have to achieve the positions that can give you the subs.

Sometimes the "right" guy wins (read: the guy who displayed dominance in the regulation portion) but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. I get it, they want a fun and submission-oriented way of breaking a tie, that avoids points or advantages. And I applaud them for that, and I think it has its merits. But it can also lead to some silly results.

As for this match, I think people are overselling Danis' performance a bit. He was definitely more active with sub attempts and that one guillotine was a legit threat. Shields got a couple of takedowns but didn't get anywhere near past the guard. I don't think the leglock attempt at the end was anywhere close. The OT rounds were close as well but Shields worked the rules better and escaped immediately almost every time. Neither man showed dominance but Jake won under this rule set.

F2W has by far the best rule set. 3 judges judging on most serious submission attempts, with control and aggression being the criteria only if no one threw a legit sub. I've watched a lot of their events and while there are plenty of close decisions I don't think I've ever seen a genuine robbery. Get 3 BBs to say who they thought was closer to a sub or lacking that who dominated the positions and was going after it more and you'll pretty much always get at least 2 to make the right call. People want to make this shit objective, but you can't do it. The choice of 'objective' means of determining a winner is in itself subjective. Just admit that subjectivity will always exist and try to find the most reliable manner of including it, which I think are expert judges.