Differences between catch wrestling and submission wrestling?

Where do you get this idea from?
Because if you take the guard away and add pins.. you get folkstyle wrestling without potentially dangerous or illegal hold calls.. i.e. "Catch wrestling" which is what folkstyle used to be. The only thing you'd have to teach them is basic leglock defense or even to just be aware. And due to the fact they already know how to "wrestle" very well and already use/ed things like powerhalves, hammerlocks and even double wrist lock grips to their absolute limit under folkstyle rules.

It's actually one of the reasons why "catch wrestlers" who whine about folkstyle rules annoy me.
 
Because if you take the guard away and add pins.. you get folkstyle wrestling without potentially dangerous or illegal hold calls.. i.e. "Catch wrestling" which is what folkstyle used to be. The only thing you'd have to teach them is basic leglock defense or even to just be aware. And due to the fact they already know how to "wrestle" very well and already use/ed things like powerhalves, hammerlocks and even double wrist lock grips to their absolute limit under folkstyle rules.

It's actually one of the reasons why "catch wrestlers" who whine about folkstyle rules annoy me.

Well, the only thing that gets rid of the guard is prohibiting the guard. Back in the day, you would see half-guard and butterfly guard in scholastic wrestling and even now, I see instances of guard work. For example, Nick Simmons.

Your post doesn't really support this claim you made that catch-wrestlers will get destroyed by any folkstyle wrestler under pin and submission rules. And I am asking for support for that claim.

In the case of both you and nefti, I am not sure where this animosity towards "catch-wrestlers" is coming from. Or how you are splitting up amateur wrestlers from catch-wrestlers.
 
Well, the only thing that gets rid of the guard is prohibiting the guard. Back in the day, you would see half-guard and butterfly guard in scholastic wrestling and even now, I see instances of guard work. For example, Nick Simmons.

Your post doesn't really support this claim you made that catch-wrestlers will get destroyed by any folkstyle wrestler under pin and submission rules. And I am asking for support for that claim.

In the case of both you and nefti, I am not sure where this animosity towards "catch-wrestlers" is coming from. Or how you are splitting up amateur wrestlers from catch-wrestlers.
I don't have any animosity.im simply stating reality.

And you know damn well that I was referring to the fact that playing traditional closed, DLR, RDLR, guard etc.. which would result in a pin. Using someone like Ness or Simmonsusing elevators and gator bacon which really isn't "playing guard". You're also making my point for me. The only thing that's would be completely unfamiliar is leglocks..

Pins being a way to win also removes the wrestlers biggest struggle.. having to pass or deal with guard

You obviously didn't read because I specifically stated that folkstyle is Catch wrestling without potentially dangerous calls or illegal holds. I didn't separate them the way you're implying

I was stating the reality of the situation and if you don't think so go into a college wrestling room due an open may
 
''It's all the SAME, only the names will change!'' - Jon Bon Jovi
 
Simple.

Catch wrestling is a specific grappling sport with its own specific ruleset.

Submission wrestling is an umbrella term for any grappling training that does not fall under any single established grappling based martial art where the primary goal is to submit your opponent.
 
I really want to know how much folkstyle experience you have if you don't understate what I'm talking about

I think all statements generalizing the results that one grappling style would enjoy against another style are misguided. I don't think you, nefti or anyone has any basis for saying that people from catch-wrestling--and what you even mean by it in this thread is not clearly defined, especially if you are making a dichotomy between catch-wrestlers and folkstyle wrestlers who are applying illegal holds and have training in submission defense--are all going to, monothically, get crushed in the scenario you outlined. I dont thik you can make those sorts of monolithic statements about any style.

I also don't know where nefti got his ideas regarding my training or lack thereof from. Or how it got from a discussion of grappling styles and history to personal insinuations about how much I've trained this or that. Ah well. I have said all I am going to say in this thread.
 
Oh yea I did confuse you. Lol my bad. You do train afaik.
 
I think all statements generalizing the results that one grappling style would enjoy against another style are misguided. I don't think you, nefti or anyone has any basis for saying that people from catch-wrestling--and what you even mean by it in this thread is not clearly defined, especially if you are making a dichotomy between catch-wrestlers and folkstyle wrestlers who are applying illegal holds and have training in submission defense--are all going to, monothically, get crushed in the scenario you outlined. I dont thik you can make those sorts of monolithic statements about any style.

I also don't know where nefti got his ideas regarding my training or lack thereof from. Or how it got from a discussion of grappling styles and history to personal insinuations about how much I've trained this or that. Ah well. I have said all I am going to say in this thread.
It's not really a monolithic statement if one has actually trained both. It actually shows a clear lack of experience or understanding of folkstyle if you don't know what I'm talking about.

There's nothing complicated or controversial about what I'm saying, if one is participating in a catch "wrestling" match. As in one can win by pinning and doesn't have to deal with passing guard or an opponent who can stay on their back for an extended period of time. Which is the thing that, by far, gives wrestlers the most trouble
Then you take an excellent mat wrestler who already uses Catch holds like Zain Retherford... he would destroy most or all of the "catch" wrestlers out there.. their only chance would be to catch him in a leglock. I would post videos examples as to why I think this but it would do you more good to actually look them up yourself. I can give you the names of you Want
 
Kforcer
I think all statements generalizing the results that one grappling style would enjoy against another style are misguided. I don't think you, nefti or anyone has any basis for saying that people from catch-wrestling--and what you even mean by it in this thread is not clearly defined, especially if you are making a dichotomy between catch-wrestlers and folkstyle wrestlers who are applying illegal holds and have training in submission defense--are all going to, monothically, get crushed in the scenario you outlined. I dont thik you can make those sorts of monolithic statements about any style.

Actually I think you can. If pins were allowed, logic dictates that competitive wrestlers with submission defense would do well. Completely logical.
 
I think the real problem is drawing a rivalrous dichotomy in the first place.

Which is to say, i personally see no conflict between catch wrestling and folkstyle wrestling; rather, one is a fulfillment of the other. They are naturally coherent.
 
I think the real problem is drawing a rivalrous dichotomy in the first place.

Which is to say, i personally see no conflict between catch wrestling and folkstyle wrestling; rather, one is a fulfillment of the other. They are naturally coherent.
I don't know if I'm explaining it well but that's the point I'm trying to make
 
I think the real problem is drawing a rivalrous dichotomy in the first place.

Which is to say, i personally see no conflict between catch wrestling and folkstyle wrestling; rather, one is a fulfillment of the other. They are naturally coherent.

I think it's more about who gets to control the federations/associations/certifications etc. as I said before.
 
It's not really a monolithic statement if one has actually trained both. It actually shows a clear lack of experience or understanding of folkstyle if you don't know what I'm talking about.

There's nothing complicated or controversial about what I'm saying, if one is participating in a catch "wrestling" match. As in one can win by pinning and doesn't have to deal with passing guard or an opponent who can stay on their back for an extended period of time. Which is the thing that, by far, gives wrestlers the most trouble
Then you take an excellent mat wrestler who already uses Catch holds like Zain Retherford... he would destroy most or all of the "catch" wrestlers out there.. their only chance would be to catch him in a leglock. I would post videos examples as to why I think this but it would do you more good to actually look them up yourself. I can give you the names of you Want

Thing is, is not really that easy to deal with leg locks specialist... Although under wrestling rules, entries from bottom could be more complicated due to pins and other rules that I'm not familiar with.. Under sub wrestling rules though, entries from guard/bottom are really really hard to deal with
 
I think it's more about who gets to control the federations/associations/certifications etc. as I said before.


I think that topic is trivial/orthogonal wrt this topic.
 
Thing is, is not really that easy to deal with leg locks specialist... Although under wrestling rules, entries from bottom could be more complicated due to pins and other rules that I'm not familiar with.. Under sub wrestling rules though, entries from guard/bottom are really really hard to deal with
Once again we are talking about Catch wrestling withPINS
 
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