did wilder's stock go up or down?

TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
I think it went up big time as far as raising his profile. After that fight hes a PPV attraction.

For me at least, it didnt do much to change my thoughts on his ability (I accept that i'm in the minority on that). It was his Frank Mir horseshoe up the ass moment imho. He looked totally outclassed for 99% of the fight and was perilously close to being stopped by a guy who, while undeniably technically proficient, is also significantly smaller and probably close to a decade older than the already pretty advanced age he claims to be.

Dont get me wrong, Wilder is a serious candidate for hardest hitting heavyweight ever, hes also big, quick and has a killer instinct. But he is also just about the wildest, sloppiest big name HW in history, and I dont think he can rely on simply his size and power to get past all the other top guys in the division.
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Significantly shorter maybe. Ortiz had 26 pounds on him.

All this nonsense on Ortiz age is solely being stirred to discredit Wilder. Its incredible.
 
On one hand he stopped Ortiz who is a legit, high level undefeated boxer. Ortiz is one of the best. On the other hand he should have been losing the fight by a fairly wide margin before getting the stoppage - I believe he had won three rounds. He also showed a great chin and recovery ability.

What confuses is me is why was Wilder up on the scorecards and whats up with the start of round 8? I don't think any outlets had him as leading the fight on points. I think it's pretty common opinion that Ortiz should have been ahead but he wasn't on the scorecards - I believe he was actually behind? It's a bit shady to be honest.
 
Inverse said:
On one hand he stopped Ortiz who is a legit, high level undefeated boxer. Ortiz is one of the best. On the other hand he should have been losing the fight by a fairly wide margin before getting the stoppage - I believe he had won three rounds. He also showed a great chin and recovery ability.

What confuses is me is why was Wilder up on the scorecards and whats up with the start of round 8? I don't think any outlets had him as leading the fight on points. I think it's pretty common opinion that Ortiz should have been ahead but he wasn't on the scorecards - I believe he was actually behind? It's a bit shady to be honest.
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Home town judges! It’s immaterial now but he should’ve been losing the fight by the start of the last round. Joshua vs wlad was the same, Joshua was up on the scorecards by the 11th, but that wasn’t the fight I was watching, though I only had him a couple down
 
Jonny Ninja said:
Home town judges! It’s immaterial now but he should’ve been losing the fight by the start of the last round. Joshua vs wlad was the same, Joshua was up on the scorecards by the 11th, but that wasn’t the fight I was watching, though I only had him a couple down
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Yeah, I agree. I believe Wlad should have been ahead in that fight also.

You'd think by now sanctioning bodies would bring in judges who are not from the area and have no affiliation with the athletes to allow for fairer decisions. But there's reasons behind everything, normally money. It just looks like Ortiz was on track to lose a decision if he wasn't knocked out which isn't fair tbh.
 
PUO3 said:
All this nonsense on Ortiz age is solely being stirred to discredit Wilder. Its incredible.
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Isnt the age factor valid though? hes still very good of course, but the guy is most likely around 46.

Its not an AJ vs Wilder fanboy thing either, prime Wlad would have beat him handily.
 
Jonny Ninja said:
Home town judges! It’s immaterial now but he should’ve been losing the fight by the start of the last round. Joshua vs wlad was the same, Joshua was up on the scorecards by the 11th, but that wasn’t the fight I was watching, though I only had him a couple down
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I saw the judges scorecards, I think they had Wilder winning 2 of the first 4. I think I had Ortiz winning the first 4. Not much happened in those rounds and if you split them with Ortiz and Wilder, you have a close fight.
 
Draper said:
Based on what? "Come on look at him" is not evidence.
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Are you saying that there isnt a very strong possibility that hes lying about his age? the rumours dont come from nowhere.

Even if we go by the age he claims to be he'd still be considered old for boxing anyway.
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
Are you saying that there isnt a very strong possibility that hes lying about his age? the rumours dont come from nowhere.
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You haven't produced any evidence. Again, "come on look at him" or "do you really think he's 38" are not valid arguments.

Even if we go by the age he claims to be he'd still be considered old for boxing anyway.
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Keep grasping at straws to discredit Wilder lmao.
 
mozfonky said:
and wilder is on crack if he thinks he could beat prime tyson fighting like that, i still don't know why the ref didn't warn him for cuffing his man, that's amateurish as it gets. haven't seen that since bob sapp.
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That's not the only curious thing. When I saw the published judges' cards, they had Wilder up going into that KO and gave him the benefit of the doubt in pretty much every round. Makes me see the boxing illuminati trying to line up Wilder vs Joshua at any cost.
 
If any fighter not named Deontay Wilder won his toughest fight against his best opponent with a come from behind devastating knockout in the tenth round people would be going nuts celebrating and congratulating the winner.

Some of you guys are just fucking jokes. Hating fighters is cool and a big part of being a sports fan but refusing to acknowledge their victories and impressive accomplishments is some petty bitch made bullshit. I wanted Ortiz to win and have never been a Wilder fan at all but I'm man enough to give the man the credit he damn well deserves. Stop being bitches.
 
For fucks sake Joshua won his only tough fight the same exact way. Some boring rounds early. Was out on his feet and hurt badly for more than a whole round then he came back and knocked his opponent the fuck out. People called it the best heavyweight fight of the decade and named Joshua the next coming of Jesus for pulling off the victory.

Wilder does the same exact thing and he's an overrated chinless boring piece of shit who only won because of a lucky shot and the fight was fixed.
 
The scorecards don't matter in this situation, Wilder got the KO over a top 5, skilled undefeated heavyweight period. His stock went up as this was a legitimate opponent he defeated.

I think people who came up watching Lennox and then Vitali & Wlad have this notion that anything less than a dominant performance from start to finish might as well be a loss. This is a different era, and different champions. It's OK to brawl your way to a heavyweight title folks, this isn't the Olympics. Were people this critical of Mayorga's prime for the same reasons?
 
Seano said:
I saw the judges scorecards, I think they had Wilder winning 2 of the first 4. I think I had Ortiz winning the first 4. Not much happened in those rounds and if you split them with Ortiz and Wilder, you have a close fight.
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there wasnt anything suspicious about either fight but home fighters, no matter where they are, generally tend to get the close rounds. The only recent major fight I can remember where I thought the judging was atrocious, potentially dodgy, was froch vs groves 1. Once again Immaterial but an absolute mystery as to why groves wasn’t out of sight by the time the fight was stopped early
 
Draper said:
Keep grasping at straws to discredit Wilder lmao.
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How is Ortiz's age or Wilder being outclassed the majority of the fight grasping at straws? seems pretty significant to me. Not saying it isnt still a good win, but it definitely has some asterisks next to it and was far from emphatic. It was one of the biggest coming back from the brink moments in recent boxing history.

The Can Opener said:
For fucks sake Joshua won his only tough fight the same exact way. Some boring rounds early. Was out on his feet and hurt badly for more than a whole round then he came back and knocked his opponent the fuck out. People called it the best heavyweight fight of the decade and named Joshua the next coming of Jesus for pulling off the victory.
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I agree that AJ is overhyped too, and his win over Wlad is somewhat overvalued considering how close it was and that Wlad was past his prime. But the difference between that and Wilder/Ortiz is Wlad wasnt at a significant height/reach disadvantage and didnt make Joshua look like an amateur for 10 rounds before getting caught with a bunch of wild hail Mary shots.
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
How is Ortiz's age or Wilder being outclassed the majority of the fight grasping at straws? seems pretty significant to me. Not saying it isnt still a good win, but it definitely has some asterisks next to it and was far from emphatic. It was one of the biggest coming back from the brink moments in recent boxing history.
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Thanks for admitting that you don't actually have any proof to back up what you say. Blocked.
 
The Can Opener said:
For fucks sake Joshua won his only tough fight the same exact way. Some boring rounds early. Was out on his feet and hurt badly for more than a whole round then he came back and knocked his opponent the fuck out. People called it the best heavyweight fight of the decade and named Joshua the next coming of Jesus for pulling off the victory.

Wilder does the same exact thing and he's an overrated chinless boring piece of shit who only won because of a lucky shot and the fight was fixed.
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Absolutely agree that there are many similarities between the 2 fights, it’s uncanny, but if you go back to this site after the wlad fight it wasn’t all positive. Too static, too stiff, slow feet etc. And today yet another Joshua juicing thread has started with absolutely no evidence other than him being buff? Unfortunately some people either can’t be objective and get over their own dislike for whatever fighter.
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
Isnt the age factor valid though? hes still very good of course, but the guy is most likely around 46.

Its not an AJ vs Wilder fanboy thing either, prime Wlad would have beat him handily.
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Why didnt any of you cry babies care about Ortiz age when you were all saying how hed knock Wilder out or that Wilder would never fight him to begin with?

Got a source for his supposed age? No, you dont.
 
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