Did the Gracie Challenge backfire?

[D 1 Wrestler]

In mma no
In bjj hell no lol they must own about 1000 academis worldwide
They are a really successful family

Exactly, training "Gracie" is equivalent to training UFC

 

[Ol'Ironhead]

Eh the army brought Gracie's back in 2009 at fort Jackson and the Gracie's tried showing us how 'effective' bjj was no matter how big your opponent was.. well one staff Srgt volunteered .. he was 5'6 200 lbs ripped and on the juice .. well they started with the Gracie on the bottom, caught him in a arm bar and the Srgt ( while chewing dip) lifted him up with one arm and slammed him on the ground and took side control lol .. they tried again with a bigger Gracie so another staff Srgt volunteered .. he was 6'5 250 lb red neck .. started on the ground then he got caught in a triangle ... the Srgt ended up pretty much powerbombing him lol .. after being humbled a bit= they went on with their lesson and it was a good one I will say .. but the army decided it wasn't worth investing much in it..

Got any source or proof that even happened ? I doubt that happened.

 

[peytonlucy]

I would say 90% of Royler´s fights were against bigger opponents, IIRC...

When Royler, Royce and Rickson were active the Gracies were claiming that with GJJ weight was not a factor. This started to change when Sak beat Royler, when they pointed out the size difference. When Royce split from the UFC he was still asserting that he could beat anyone regardless of weight. Walid choking Royce unconscious in Brazil was a big deal at the time.

 

[BoogerDawson]

define success...

Conor has big clown feet.

 

[Ol'Ironhead]

Is there a source for this?

It's Bullshit. That poster spews a ton of bs on threads.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

I'm not saying that Ken is better than Royce, or even could've won if he had his way.

All I'm saying is that Royce was allowed to wear a gi, which CAN be used to your advantage, when other fighters weren't allowed same in their respective disciplines.

I got u.

A GI can be used against you too, as I said, especially against a leglocker...

 

[helltoupee]

thats not UFC 1, thats the super fight, we are talking about UFC 1 here.

You made the claim that the GI can not be effectively used to someone's advantage besides Ezekiel chokes and absorbing sweat, and furthermore that Royce never used it for such. I beg to differ.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

When Royler, Royce and Rickson were active the Gracies were claiming that with GJJ weight was not a factor. This started to change when Sak beat Royler, when they pointed out the size difference. When Royce split from the UFC he was still asserting that he could beat anyone regardless of weight. Walid choking Royce unconscious in Brazil was a big deal at the time.

Yeahh... but as Royce often claimed: "Im conceding the weight difference, they have to give me something!"

What?

No-time limit.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

You made the claim that the GI can not be effectively used to someone's advantage besides Ezekiel chokes and absorbing sweat, and furthermore that Royce never used it for such. I beg to differ.

NO, I made I claim that Royce did not use any weapon at UFC 1, you said he actually used his gi as one, implying part of his UFC 1 win was because of the GI, which cannot be further from the truth.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Eh the army brought Gracie's back in 2009 at fort Jackson and the Gracie's tried showing us how 'effective' bjj was no matter how big your opponent was.. well one staff Srgt volunteered .. he was 5'6 200 lbs ripped and on the juice .. well they started with the Gracie on the bottom, caught him in a arm bar and the Srgt ( while chewing dip) lifted him up with one arm and slammed him on the ground and took side control lol .. they tried again with a bigger Gracie so another staff Srgt volunteered .. he was 6'5 250 lb red neck .. started on the ground then he got caught in a triangle ... the Srgt ended up pretty much powerbombing him lol .. after being humbled a bit= they went on with their lesson and it was a good one I will say .. but the army decided it wasn't worth investing much in it..

 

[helltoupee]

NO, I made I claim that Royce did not use any weapon at UFC 1, you said he actually used his gi as one, implying part of his UFC 1 win was because of the GI, which cannot be further from the truth.

I stand corrected.

My apologies.

 

[ColombianFist]

The Gracie challenge was massively successful.

Even if they didn't win every fight, they were the only ones out there that were willing to regularly test their fighting style in real no holds barred combat. So not only did it get their name out there, but it won them tons of respect.

Also it reintroduced the world to NHB fighting. Without them and their Gracie challenge there would be no UFC or MMA.

The Gracie challenge was not only about winning either. They did have a strong desire to learn and improve, and they needed to fight the best in order to do that. Back in the day, the Gracies were very good at adapting and evolving their technique. IMO it's been their one fatal flaw that they stopped adapting around the turn of the century. It's allowed the game to pass them by.

We need to appreciate what they did accomplish though. It far surpassed what any other person or family has accomplished.

THIS. From a combat POV not much, but from a business POV it was effective and it made profit.

 

[Thunderflash500]

THIS. From a combat POV not much, but from a business POV it was effective and it made profit.

It was extremely effective you fucking goof. How are mma fans so retarded? The entire ufc was a Gracie challenge. The Gracie challenge revolutionized self defense. They EXPOSED HUNDREDS of martial arts as being in effective if trained alone. The Gracie challenge dragged forward combat training 500 years forward. Fucking god damn it you people make me faith in humanity.

You idiots are saying it's not effective against other mixed martial artists who TRAIN bjj and that's proof its a failure? What???? Posting some fake army story. You idiots realise the military uses bjj right? They also use boxing, wrestling ect. You know, mma. Mma resulted out of the Gracie challenge.

 

[ColombianFist]

It was extremely effective you fucking goof. How are mma fans so retarded? The entire ufc was a Gracie challenge. The Gracie challenge revolutionized self defense. They EXPOSED HUNDREDS of martial arts as being in effective if trained alone. The Gracie challenge dragged forward combat training 500 years forward. Fucking god damn it you people make me faith in humanity.

But when people started to understand grappling the challenge wasn't effective anymore; it fulfilled its purpose or can you explain why Saku did beat 4 gracies?? Once people understood the benefits of Bjj the challenge wasn't necessary.

 

[Nononononotorious]

Ali and his daughter?

Laila ali is C class cherry picking ducker who doesn't know shit about fighting seeing as how she thinks she can beat mma fighters

 

[Nononononotorious]

It was extremely effective you fucking goof. How are mma fans so retarded? The entire ufc was a Gracie challenge. The Gracie challenge revolutionized self defense. They EXPOSED HUNDREDS of martial arts as being in effective if trained alone. The Gracie challenge dragged forward combat training 500 years forward. Fucking god damn it you people make me faith in humanity.

You idiots are saying it's not effective against other mixed martial artists who TRAIN bjj and that's proof its a failure? What???? Posting some fake army story. You idiots realise the military uses bjj right? They also use boxing, wrestling ect. You know, mma. Mma resulted out of the Gracie challenge.

Someone with some sense^

All this shit about "the big kid on the block til everyone grew up" and "mma has evolved, bjj is a prototype" are complete casual morons.

 

[Thunderflash500]

But when people started to understand grappling the challenge wasn't effective anymore; it fulfilled its purpose or can you explain why Saku did beat 4 gracies?? Once people understood the benefits of Bjj the challenge wasn't necessary.

The purpose of the challenge was to show the effectiveness of bjj and grappling. Which it did to an unbelievable level of success. Saku was a catch wrestler. Not that different from bjj. Not to mention he was an athlete. At that point it's a competition between two skilled opponents who know what the other brings. It's not a show case for anything. Saku knew about judo, and that's where bjj comes from. It's the same thing, just different sport rules. Its similar to someone saying Matt Hueghs is a white belt in bjj cause he doesn't train in a gi. And he beat Royce, therefore you don't need bjj. Well everyone knows matt is essentially a high level black belt.

The fact remains that without knowing bjj, or whatever you want to call ground fighting, judo, sambo, catch wresting ect, you're likely going to get wrecked by someone who does know it. BJJ focused on ground fighting whereas judo moved away from it. The techniques in judo, catch wrestling, bjj are all the same on the ground. Different focus maybe but it's just grappling. Naming it different doesn't matter.

 

[The Schmoop]

They made a lot of money but as far being legitimate mixed martial artist they weren't really shit. They were pivotal in the infancy of the sport but were quickly left behind. Some of their best players needed rule adjustments simply to compete. Nothing really special imho but I do respect the hell out of the push the gave the sport when it needed most.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

idk i never saw true evidence of these challenges going Helio Gracie's way.

Pretty sure many people accepted the challenge with some toughboy shit and lost tho.

B4 challenging Kimura, Helio had to beat his student, for instance...

 

[BJJ_Rage]

The purpose of the challenge was to show the effectiveness of bjj and grappling. Which it did to an unbelievable level of success. Saku was a catch wrestler. Not that different from bjj. Not to mention he was an athlete. At that point it's a competition between two skilled opponents who know what the other brings. It's not a show case for anything. Saku knew about judo, and that's where bjj comes from. It's the same thing, just different sport rules. Its similar to someone saying Matt Hueghs is a white belt in bjj cause he doesn't train in a gi. And he beat Royce, therefore you don't need bjj. Well everyone knows matt is essentially a high level black belt.

The fact remains that without knowing bjj, or whatever you want to call ground fighting, judo, sambo, catch wresting ect, you're likely going to get wrecked by someone who does know it. BJJ focused on ground fighting whereas judo moved away from it. The techniques in judo, catch wrestling, bjj are all the same on the ground. Different focus maybe but it's just grappling. Naming it different doesn't matter.

to some degree what bjj showed was that grappling is way more efficient in a 1 v 1 fight than any striking art.

Gjj is not however only grappling, it involves many aspects of fighting, some which you wont get just by pure doing other grappling sports. However, if you are a outstanding grappler, its quite easy to adapt your style to real fighting.