Did the Gracie Challenge backfire?

[KOskater]

<45>

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

To be fair though, the Gracies were allowed some advantages.

Strikers weren't allowed hand wraps, which would heavily favor Royce. Rorion's explanation was "in a real fight, do you have time to wrap your hands?" - which is legit. However, you don't have time to put on a gi in a real fight either, which Royce used as a weapon.

Same thing with Ken's wrestling shoes.

Go watch the ol´school Vale Tudo fight Eugenio Tadeu vs Renan Pitanguy... see if the GI was that great in the ring...

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Right.

Even among grappling arts, BJJ seems to be more effective and more evolved than the rest. I may be mistaken, but the top grapplers ever are all BJJers. Marcelo, Roger, Buchecha, etc.

Everybody was forced to reconsider the old paradigms...

 

[helltoupee]

You probably wouldn't wear a pair of speedos on the street where real fights take place. Having a gi is actually an argument for more realism, I'd say.

Most people wear shirts on the street which end up getting pulled over your head if you don't take it off.

A gi is not the same as a shirt, it would rip if you attempted some of the holds/chokes that Royce used.

 

[The ScorpioN]

Most people wear shirts on the street which end up getting pulled over your head if you don't take it off.

A gi is not the same as a shirt, it would rip if you attempted some of the holds/chokes that Royce used.

Depends where you live. What if it's cold?

it really doesn't matter, since karatekas could use their gi, and wrestlers their shoes, and Shammy his speedo.

 

[helltoupee]

Go watch the ol´school Vale Tudo fight Eugenio Tadeu vs Renan Pitanguy... see if the GI was that great in the ring...

Of course I'm not saying this is the case every single time - I don't like speaking in absolutes.

However there is no question that Royce was allowed to use something while others were not, based on supposed "real fight" conditions. I don't see that many people in street fights wearing a gi.

 

[The ScorpioN]

Everybody was forced to reconsider the old paradigms...

Yes. Am I wrong in my conclusion about BJJ?

 

[The Best JG]

No way dude gracies have a huge name

 

[The ScorpioN]

I'd say the Gracies may be the most important family in the history of martial arts.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Of course I'm not saying this is the case every single time - I don't like speaking in absolutes.

However there is no question that Royce was allowed to use something while others were not, based on supposed "real fight" conditions. I don't see that many people in street fights wearing a gi.

The only guy who actually constantly used the GI was Royce...

In 1988 Eugenio Tadeu challenged Royler behind closed doors, and Royler didnt use it.

The other Gracies didnt really use it..

Yoshida in Pride used it when he 1st made the transition, then at the end dropped it, jus´like his main students like Nakamura

 

[KOskater]

no

 

[helltoupee]

Depends where you live. What if it's cold?

it really doesn't matter, since karatekas could use their gi, and wrestlers their shoes, and Shammy his speedo.

I don't think you understand how a gi is constructed and how it is relevant in holds, grips, and chokes.

And what happened when Shamrock was allowed his shoes?

And I noticed that you skipped the part about the hand/wrist wraps.

 

[KOskater]

I'd say the Gracies may be the most important family in the history of martial arts.

<cheer>

 

[Blayt7hh]

Gotta love the BJJ detractors.

"If you're fighting massive well trained soldiers, groups, or psychopaths willing to go to jail for attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon in an altercation, its basically useless"

"Good luck getting an armbar while he's stabbing you with a samurai sword "

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Yes. Am I wrong in my conclusion about BJJ?

Im not against your conclusion, I actually agree that at openweight, you´re right.

But as I said at the beginning, it´s all about the rules and fight configuration.

 

[helltoupee]

The only guy who actually constantly used the GI was Royce...

In 1988 Eugenio Tadeu challenged Royler behind closed doors, and Royler didnt use it.

The other Gracies didnt really use it..

Yoshida in Pride used it when he 1st made the transition, then at the end dropped it, jus´like his main students like Nakamura

Ya, no doubt.

I was referencing the early UFCs, Royce, his being allowed to use a gi while other fighters were denied hand wraps and shoes.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Ya, no doubt.

I was referencing the early UFCs, Royce, his being allowed to use a gi while other fighters were denied hand wraps and shoes.

denied? in ol´school events, like this one, u could wear shoes but not kick.

Hand wraps.. I dont remember about this one... If Art could use his glove...

 

[Blayt7hh]

side control is an mma technique, that dude probably learned it by watching UFC which wouldn't exist without the Gracies.

Anyhoo,if this story is true,it was dumb for them to claim size doesn't matter. But it was also dumb for the army to throw out everything because they failed to armbar two roiders that may have been mma-trained. The Gracies still have valuable skills that can benefit the average guy.

So what are the army using now, in place of BJJ?
Even if we think (or know) that BJJ has its limits, it is still in the upper echelons of combat knowledge.

Maybe they just keep using Karate...

They didn't throw it out. You can look it up online, Army combatives is like 90% basic bjj.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

They didn't throw it out. You can look it up online, Army combatives is like 90% basic bjj.

The Russian Army uses combat sambo, compulsory training

 

[helltoupee]

denied? in ol´school events, like this one, u could wear shoes but not kick.

Hand wraps.. I dont remember this one... If Art could use his glove...

I'm talking about the early UFCs, not Vale Tudo.

Shamrock didn't want shoes for kicking, he wanted them for traction.

Hand wraps were denied.