Diamond Stepping?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Hotora86, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. Hotora86

    Hotora86 by armbar

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,445
    Likes Received:
    11,266
    Location:
    Land of Po
    Lineage is noteworthy but it isn't a 100% guarantee. I can easily trace my lineage to Funakoshi himself but I still got taught to move in straight lines and block kicks with Gedan Barai. I think the fact that the Japanese added so much Kendo flavor to Shotokan is also to blame. Then nobody really questioned it when Karate came to Europe and the US. And now you have WKF style training which looks nothing like the Okinawan original art.
     
  2. DoctorTaco

    DoctorTaco Breadhead

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    10,317
    Likes Received:
    2,467
    Location:
    Portland fuckin’ Oregon.
    not formally. He was a guest coach at a clinic I was at. I really liked what he was teaching for the few hours we had together. Im very footwork centric when I fight so his style fit me to a T
     
    shincheckin likes this.
  3. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1,856
    i know he coaches down in san diego, i have been meaning to try and get to work with him one day.
     
  4. BillytheFish

    BillytheFish Purple Belt

    Joined:
    May 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    Regarding the 'diamond step'...this seems a lot of discussion for what is a basic side step/lateral movement in a fighting situation, as fundamental a part of fighting as learning how to throw a basic punch? Ie not coming at your opponent/back off in a straight line.
     
    Tayski likes this.
  5. ARIZE

    ARIZE Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    678
    Location:
    Gazing into the abyss
    @BillytheFish

    I think what we are talking about is a bit more complicated. It's not about the basic single side step. It's about been able to "flow" in between all the directions, depending on the situation, and also be able to counter while doing it.
    Moving at 45° forward (from both sides) to counter, while the opponents attacks, may be simple in paper, but not so easy to do.
    What you describe is mostly when you attack, to go in a 45°, which I agree is basic (and still, not in all sports), or when you back away, to go one step back, and one step in 90° followed by a pivot. Which is also basic. Or should be.
    Diamond stepping is about all the variation in between, while attacking, defending or countering.

    I have the feeling that maybe in boxing, diamond stepping is explained and trained earlier...
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  6. BillytheFish

    BillytheFish Purple Belt

    Joined:
    May 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    1,796
    As soon as you can stably move forward/backward/sideways in boxing, you're almost taught immediately to approach/retreat at an angle while throwing or not throwing. That is why it is surprising to me seeing black belts of a martial art displaying it as if it is something new/more complex
     
  7. ARIZE

    ARIZE Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    678
    Location:
    Gazing into the abyss
    There are some difference in TMA that make's it more difficult. And in ITF it's still taught to beginners for sparring, but I think you will see why it's more complicated than for boxing:

    -In TMA we use both stance equally. You may think that will "only" double the difficulty, but since your opponent will also switch stances on the fly during matches, it's a lot more complicated. It means that from the start, you learn how to move both as an orthodox/southpaw vs both an orthodox/southpaw opponent.
    From the (little) experience I have in boxing gyms, for beginners you train only your stance against orthodox. Only later you may train specifically for a fight against southpaws.
    And it's something you must be able to do instinctively in the match every time you or your opponent switches...which is constantly.

    -When you add striking with movement, it's add to the complication. Ok, you know how to move for every situation... but you got to adapt the strikes for it. And now we add the kicks... And with the kicks come a lot more difficulties. Because you may be able to move the way you want, but is your balance the "right" way for the kick you had in mind? I know in boxing you also have to be in the right balance for a good punch, but you understand how much more work is needed for the kicks...

    -When you add kicks in the fight, you add another distance. It's not the same to do a side step from punching distance, as from kicking distance. Timing will also be different...


    So to train all this, to a point that you are doing them instinctively, you need a lot more time than in boxing. Because it's not just about adding something more, is about adding AND combine all of them together. You will probably be able to flow with your steps in boxing after 1 or 2 years, in TMA you will need a lot more.


    PS: And I probably forget a bunch of other stuffs... The other pajama guys may have something to add, but take what they say with a pinch. Most of them are karate guys, and even they don't like or trust each other...
     
    Hotora86 and shincheckin like this.
  8. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1,856
    this diamond stepping would be basic 101 for a Muay Boran guy. The triangle footwork is common across all stick/knife/sword fighting techniques. This is why IMO, to fully understand muay thai to the deepest extent, you would have to learn and Master all 3, Krabi Krabong, Muay Boran, and Muay Thai. I feel the things learned in all 3 can be added and combined into another, meaning krabi krabong could help your muay thai, muay thai could help your krabi krabong, so on and so forth.
     
    Hotora86 and BillytheFish like this.
  9. ARIZE

    ARIZE Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    678
    Location:
    Gazing into the abyss
    Probably, but good luck finding a legit MBoran instructor outside Thailand. And to tell you the truth, I'm not really interested in weapon fighting just to better my MT.

    Actually I'm very satisfied from cross training ITF. The main logic is the complete opposite from MT. Speed over power, avoid rather than block, light stance instead of heavy rooted one etc. So you learn completely different moves, but still very useful when fighting MT. Of course there are a bunch of things I would prefer not to "waste" my time on (goddamn Katas), but all in all it's a very beneficial experience.

    It's probably different for each individual, but I think some TMA may be more beneficial to Nak Muays than MBoran, or traditional Thai weapon fighting.

    But in the end of the day, just do what you enjoy. (except for boxing... or bjj... or most wrestling sports... and most karate styles... well probably all karate styles... and KB... and WTF... and kung-fu of course... oh and mma... savate... hapkido...)
     
    Hotora86 and shincheckin like this.
  10. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1,856
    yeah I mean the 3's of muay thai just to master pure muay thai but I agree alot of TMA would be very beneficial as well.
     
    Hotora86 likes this.

Share This Page