Denzel will be remembered as greater than Daniel Day-Lewis

[BisexualMMA]

Denzel has been in more entertaining movies for sure.


DDL is selective with his roles, which allows him to maintain the allure of being so far above most other actors without taking any chances. Or, you could look at it the other direction and say he isn't a 'sellout'


Either or.


Denzel is the best black actor of all time tho imo.

He is definitely selective and doesn't spam roles at the public like Samuel L. Jackson or Michael Caine back in the day.

But the last thing I would say about DDL is that he doesn't take risks. Lincoln, My Left Foot... Those are risky as hell. One note that's a little bit off and the whole thing sinks.

 

[Übermacht]

The last time I mentioned Hardy was the best a lot of jimmies got rustled in the 'Berry.

 

[Slippage]

This is all subjective, you're obviously biased towards Denzel. But I think most people consider DDL as the superior actor. Just check this poll on here http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/whos-is-the-greatest-actor-of-all-time.3391881/ and you can see how many votes Denzel had.

Denzel may have more nominations. But DDL has more Oscars, plus he's the only actor to win 3 lead acting oscars.

DDL barely does any movies, he's like a part time actor. So therefore why would he go back to stage acting? I don't think he's scared, I just think he's more compelled to do film acting. And there is a lot of great actors who haven't been back to stage. I think De NIro, Dustin Hoffman, Gene Hackman, Al Pacino, Jack Nicolson just to name a few. So you can see DDL is not alone in this.

I posted a CBS poll that asked audiences to choose the 4 greatest actors ever that deserve to be on Mount Rushmore, and Denzel made the final 4 (along with Pacino, DeNiro and Nicholson). DDL didn't get voted in. So it depends on which audience you ask and where. DDL might easily win a Sherdog poll over Denzel, because Sherbros fully bought into the hype surrounding DDL, and Denzel is seen as more "mainstream" (so a less cool choice for GOAT here). But in many real world polls (like that CBS one with far more voters) Denzel would thrash DDL easily if you asked the question as to whom was greater. Denzel has actually been voted America's favourite actor about 7 times, so he wins real world polls pretty easily against other actors.

Nicholson never really did stage at all. He learned to act on Roger Corman film sets. Probably why he gets by more on force of personality than any of the supposed greats. Pacino still does stage.

With DDL, you'd think he"d have a lot of spare time to do stage, considering he takes years between movies. I read that he was ambitious to be a great stage actor when he was younger. My feeling is that It's harder to control the outcome of how stage performances are received and that depressed DDL, especially as the reviews for his last stage role we'rent great. If DDL bombed on stage too many times, do you think the media and critics could keep trying to sell him as the world"s best actor? Of course not. It's damage his reputation too much. Stage is too much of a risk for DDL. He has too much to lose in terms of reputation.

I'd love to have seen DDL take that risk again and do a big play on Broadway like Denzel, who puts his reputation on the line every time he goes back on stage.

 

[is normal]

Alright. Deadline is a "titan of the industry "bible. They wrote an article this year calling the "world's greatest actor" a toss-up between Denzel and DDL

http://deadline.com/2017/06/daniel-...oward-phil-lord-chrisopher-miller-1202121504/

Esquire this year declaring Denzel the greatest living American actor (I know DDL isn't American, but it sort of suggests parity)

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/g3518/best-denzel-washington-movies/?src=socialflowFB

AwardsDaily (another respected industry site) calling Denzel "the world's greatest living actor" earlier this year. I presume that includes DDL (who is also mentioned in the article). DDL isn't even retired yet and some "discerning" industry opinion seems to be shifting towards Denzel. His work in Fences seemed to be a turning point for some.

http://www.awardsdaily.com/2017/07/31/early-oscar-predictions-frontrunners-challengers/

I don't think you can rely on the Oscars to keep DDL's rep elevated over Denzel either. Denzel already has more nominations (7>5) and will get more. And he nearly won a 3rd Best Actor Oscar with Fences last year, and only a fool would bet against him winning a 3rd. So in all probability, he'll match DDL in Oscar wins, and far exceed him in nominations (if DDL sticks to his promise and stays retired).

They've got similar levels of acclaim as film actors anyway, and Denzel's status as a Tony award winning stage actor means DDL doesn't come close to his acclaim in theatre. It's not as much of a leap as you seem to believe that Denzel''s rep as the greater actor will eventually overwhelm DDL's.

Using other people's opinions to validate your own doesn't make you more right.
Denzel brings his special swag to everything he does so he gets the macho vote.
but the man who played Lincoln is a mother fucking time traveling shape shifter.

 

[Lethal_Striker]

I can understand people disqualifying DDL based on inactivity. Like someone who puts out 2 movies every year SHOULD get credit for that over someone who does a movie every 4 years. But DDL transforms himself into a completely different person every movie more so then Washington does. For example lets look at when each stars in a biopic, Washington is really really good as Malcolm X but you still see Denzel playing Malcolm. When DDL plays Lincoln you almost forget that its the same actor who played Daniel Plainview up on screen but you just see Lincoln and not someone playing Lincoln.

 

[Slippage]

I can understand people disqualifying DDL based on inactivity. Like someone who puts out 2 movies every year SHOULD get credit for that over someone who does a movie every 4 years. But DDL transforms himself into a completely different person every movie more so then Washington does. For example lets look at when each stars in a biopic, Washington is really really good as Malcolm X but you still see Denzel playing Malcolm. When DDL plays Lincoln you almost forget that its the same actor who played Daniel Plainview up on screen but you just see Lincoln and not someone playing Lincoln.

With Lincoln, a lot of that is actually down to make-up artists, which actors mistakenly get credit for. Yes, DDL puts on a different voice and gives a fine performance, but the make-up job is so exceptional, that it completes the illusion. Johnny Depp goes for a lot of extreme make-up jobs as well, and combined with him doing different funny voices, people used to act like he was some miraculous transformer. Till he milked it and it started to become a gimmick.

I've never known Denzel to be reliant on extreme make-up to "transform". He may cut his hair a certain way, or wear a beard or gain some weight, But you can never give half the credit for any of his performances to the brilliance of the make-up department. He doesn't even really look much like Malcolm X, but you buy it soley on the strength of his acting. In a way, isnt that far more impressive than DDL "becoming" Lincoln with a million dollar make-up team behind him? Denzel managed to make everyone believe he was Malcolm X with not much more than a pair of glasses and his acting.

You don't buy that illusion of DDL "becoming" Lincoln without one of the most expert make-up teams in Hollywood. It's not just the acting.

Try watching DDL pretend to be an Italian film director in Nine, without an expert make-up team to completely transform his appearance. It just looks like Daniel Day-Lewis doing a bad Italian accent.

 

[Slippage]

Using other people's opinions to validate your own doesn't make you more right.
Denzel brings his special swag to everything he does so he gets the macho vote.
but the man who played Lincoln is a mother fucking time traveling shape shifter.

The guy who played Lincoln is a good actor with one of the best make-up teams money could buy. I'm pretty sure it took him 8 hours every day in a make-up chair to "time travel and shape-shift" as you put it.

If you think that performance receives as many accolades without the Oscar worthy make-up job, you are naive.

 

[Slobodan]

 

[CO68]

Nope. I meant what I said. Denzel to be remembered as the greater actor. Not"bigger movie star". Though he'll obviously be that as well.

How can a guy with more Oscar nominations than DDL and a fucking Tony for stage acting not be in contention to go down as a greater actor?

Since when are the Oscars the end-all, be-all to a discussion? They've fucked up so many times I stopped taking them seriously long ago. But, if you want to go there, then:

Denzel: 46 movies - 5 best actor nominations, 1 win, 2 best supporting actor nominations, and 1 win
DDL: 20 movies - 5 best actor nominations, and 3 wins

Less than half the movies, but has more best actor wins.

Denzel still goes back on stage every 4 years. Because he"s the greater actor and not afraid of the challenge. And that has nothing to do with being a "bigger movie star.

Maybe Denzel likes it whereas DDL doesn't.

 

[CO68]

I agree. But his name turns up in GOAT debates all the time. It is what it is.

Nicholson is another actor better than Denzel. Since you want to center your argument around Oscar nominations and since 12 > 7, you have to agree that Nicholson is better in your eyes.

 

[El Chimpo]

It's a shame Heath Ledger isn't still around. That dude was on a pretty steady ascension before he died. He was obviously great as the Joker, but he played a really great role in the film 'The Lords of Dogtown' too as Skip

ledger, psh and yelchin were huge losses

missed out on a shitload of great movies

 

[Slippage]

Maybe Denzel likes it whereas DDL doesn't.

Nah.

DDL likes stage. He may even love it. He did it for over 10 years.

I think he realised that he"d never be "great" on stage. He had a solid career in theatre, but nobody was talking about him as a super-special stage actor like they talked about Kenneth Branagh or Mark Rylance. Hamlet was supposed to change that for DDL, as It's the biggest role a young stage actor can take on. The mixed to negative reviews he got for Hamlet must have been devastating, and he probably gave up on being a stage great after that.

In a stage career that lasted over a decade, DDL never received any major theatre awards or nominations. I don't think he had the stomach to just be an "okay" stage actor.

Denzel has gotten mixed stage reviews as well when he was younger, but he never gave up on attaining greatness in theatre. Which he did.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

He is definitely selective and doesn't spam roles at the public like Samuel L. Jackson or Michael Caine back in the day.

But the last thing I would say about DDL is that he doesn't take risks. Lincoln, My Left Foot... Those are risky as hell. One note that's a little bit off and the whole thing sinks.

I disagree with those being risks -they fit his MO perfectly as they were Oscar bait.


Oldman takes risks imo, so does Hardy. DDL does not.

 

[minute bull]

I really wanted to see Ledger as Mad Max.

 

[HenryFlower]

Slippage is a sad & desperate little man.

 

[Slippage]

Slippage is a sad & desperate little man.

Lol!

You sound salty as hell simply because I'm making logical arguments that make sense, without being a troll about it.

Nobody is forcing you or anybody else to agree with me. If you want to continue hugging DDL"s nuts and call him GOAT, nobody is stopping you. I'm not trying to disillusion you or steal your dreams, but I believe everything I say.

Why you so scared of a little debate? You sound shook because some people are actually agreeing with me.

 

[Fonx]

I think DDL is more unrecognizable in his roles. Denzel is great don´t get me wrong, but I always get the feeling he is Denzel playing Denzel as (insert character here).

Also, it always bugs me in a way that we consider someone like DDL or Denzel the GOAT. They´re potentially the goat drama actors, but they have never been in a comedy. De Niro, for example, has basically touched all genres.

 

[HenryFlower]

Lol!

You sound salty as hell simply because I'm making logical arguments that make sense, without being a troll about it.

Nobody is forcing you or anybody else to agree with me. If you want to continue hugging DDL"s nuts and call him GOAT, nobody is stopping you. I'm not trying to disillusion you or steal your dreams, but I believe everything I say.

Why you so scared of a little debate? You sound shook because some people are actually agreeing with me.

“logical arguments” isn’t usually a phrase one relates to a person making their argument on the strength of “i think [...]” or “i feel [...]” counterpoints.

 

[Slippage]

“logical arguments” isn’t usually a phrase one relates to a person making their argument on the strength of “i think [...]” or “i feel [...]” counterpoints.

Like I said, you came off pretty bitter because several people are agreeing with my points.

If you are a DDL guy, more power to you. It ain't personal. Like I said, I'm not discussing this to shatter your illusions, but because I believe in what I'm saying.

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

I posted a CBS poll that asked audiences to choose the 4 greatest actors ever that deserve to be on Mount Rushmore, and Denzel made the final 4 (along with Pacino, DeNiro and Nicholson). DDL didn't get voted in. So it depends on which audience you ask and where. DDL might easily win a Sherdog poll over Denzel, because Sherbros fully bought into the hype surrounding DDL, and Denzel is seen as more "mainstream" (so a less cool choice for GOAT here). But in many real world polls (like that CBS one with far more voters) Denzel would thrash DDL easily if you asked the question as to whom was greater. Denzel has actually been voted America's favourite actor about 7 times, so he wins real world polls pretty easily against other actors.

Nicholson never really did stage at all. He learned to act on Roger Corman film sets. Probably why he gets by more on force of personality than any of the supposed greats. Pacino still does stage.

With DDL, you'd think he"d have a lot of spare time to do stage, considering he takes years between movies. I read that he was ambitious to be a great stage actor when he was younger. My feeling is that It's harder to control the outcome of how stage performances are received and that depressed DDL, especially as the reviews for his last stage role we'rent great. If DDL bombed on stage too many times, do you think the media and critics could keep trying to sell him as the world"s best actor? Of course not. It's damage his reputation too much. Stage is too much of a risk for DDL. He has too much to lose in terms of reputation.

I'd love to have seen DDL take that risk again and do a big play on Broadway like Denzel, who puts his reputation on the line every time he goes back on stage.

I haven't seen that CBS poll but if it's true so be it. Denzel will be of course be the more mainstream actor. He's been in way more blockbuster movies. I honestly think it's apple and oranges in thinking who the better actor is. If you prefer Denzel good for you. No one is really going to win this argument. Were just going in circles with it.

I don't think he's afraid of failure to do stage acting. He failed in Nine horribly, but did it stop him from doing movies? I just don't think he's interested in committing himself doing a show 5 or 6 days a week for how many weeks they go for. It's just too much, considering how committed he gets into a role. By the way I think there more risk in failing in movies than failing in stage. You get more attention making a movie rather than acting in stage. More people will see you fail more in the movies. So I disagree with your assessment in that. Even if he went back on stage and failed I don' think it would do damage to his reputation. He'd still be known as one of the greatest film actors of all time. Nothing will change that.

Also DDL has taken risks. My Left Foot, In The Name of the Father, Gangs of New York, There Will Be Blood, Lincoln. Those roles he did in those movies are not guarantee success performances. There's risk to pretty much all the movies he's done. Just because he was great in them doesn't make it less of a risk.