Del. Nick Freitas' guns speech goes viral.

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by BearGrounds, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. Neph

    Neph Purple Belt

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    Just to be clear, because I disagree doesn't make me disingenuous.

    I've never needed a gun in my entire life. I'm 35. Practically everyone I know will say the exact same thing; we have never, ever needed a gun.
    If someone was really desperate to break into my house and take my shit, which again has never ever happened, then fuck it. They can take it, I'm insured, and I'll just file a police report. A bit of my stuff is not worth someone dying over. I'm financially comfortable, it'll cost me fuck all to pay my excess/deductible, and I'll probably be better off because it will all be new for old replacement. I'll end up financially better off.
     
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  2. Patrick Carey

    Patrick Carey White Belt

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    Okay cool, youre cool with being a victim.

    I hope you dont think that somehow is virtuous of you.

    Regardless of how you feel, some people do want to not let themselves be victimized. I feel it is downright evil to deny a small woman the ability to defend herself from a rape.

    I absolutely think it is disingenuous for you to dismiss the firearm as a tool for a community to protect itself.
     
  3. Neph

    Neph Purple Belt

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    I guess this is becoming a bit tit-for-tat, but I've never been a victim. I've never needed a gun. I don't know how hard this can be.

    What does seem possible though is that you will kill someone for your TV. I dunno.
     
  4. ShadowRun

    ShadowRun error Platinum Member

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    I wish I lived in your bubble world.
     
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  5. Neph

    Neph Purple Belt

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    Come to Australia, it's pretty neat here.
     
  6. ShadowRun

    ShadowRun error Platinum Member

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    I've been there to Sydney it was awesome. No connecting countries to AUS has really helped you guys out, I plan to go back and visit I had a lot of fun there
     
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  7. Neph

    Neph Purple Belt

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    I've been fortunate to visit your fine country as well. In July last year I went to San Fran (4th of July celebrations), Vegas (international fight week), then Boston, NYC, Philly, DC. Had a fantastic time, you guys do have an awesome country that you should be proud of. I loved every bit of it.
     
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  8. ShadowRun

    ShadowRun error Platinum Member

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    Glad to hear you liked it, I'm working in the Middle East right now so when I have time off I have been traveling around this side of the world. I really wanted to catch Parkway Drive while I visited there but the band wasn't doing no shows.
     
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  9. AlphaDelphic

    AlphaDelphic Green Belt

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    Drowning is the leading cause of death in children aged 1 - 5. Have you ever really needed a swimming pool?

    Do any of us really need vehicles capable of speeds over 20mph?

    A truck the size of a $39/day uhaul can murder 86 people in one swoop as we saw in Nice, France. Do we really need the ability to stuff countless belongings into one giant vehicle rather than just making more trips with smaller vehicles (which can’t exceed 20mph - because, lives, ya know?).

    Does anyone really need a bottle of liquor?

    However, countless people have needed firearms to save themselves from rape, violence, etc at the hands of an assailant they otherwise could not overpower.

    If we’re to prohibit things on a needs/risk ratio, we would have to ban innumerable items before ever getting to firearms.
     
  10. Neph

    Neph Purple Belt

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    1. In Australia you cannot have a pool without adequate fencing: http://www.hpw.qld.gov.au/construct...y/poolfencessafetybarriers/pages/default.aspx

    2. Yes, transport of goods and services is absolutely necessary. Commuting to work allows our economy to function. We still put speed limits on the road in an effort to balance exactly what I had indicated - that there is utility and risk, and it is not an absolute yes/no. In the same way, I am not promoting the idea of gun bans, please re-read my post.

    3. No, and Australia has a huge issue with liquor. We suck with it. I'm not big on banning, I'm big on education and changing the culture here. Sort of like I'm not proposing to ban guns either.

    4. I dunno, is there a statistic you can provide for that? I can certainly show how much gun violence there is in the USA. What I would agree to though is some real statistics (from a reputable source) that demonstrates averted violence. If the averted violence > US's increased risk of violence, then I believe guns would be a good thing. As a real world example, if you somehow found you and your family in some war torn country then I would absolutely promote the idea of carrying guns!

    5. Again I am not looking to prohibit everything and people that make that argument are not even reading what I'm saying. If there are things that cause more harm than good, then yes, we should look at how we can minimise that harm. I'm all for it.
     
  11. Patrick Carey

    Patrick Carey White Belt

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    Maybe i dont want to trust these people who are clearly breaking into my house to not murder me and my wife? Lol i have no reason to trust them.

    If i knew for a fact that someone breaking in just wanted my TV, honestly i'd probably let them have it. i wouldnt want to have to deal with killing some drug addict and making it mess up my schedule.

    But you and i are not mind readers. All i know about someone breaking into my home is that they want me to be a victim of theirs. That is all i know.
     
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  12. Neph

    Neph Purple Belt

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    Hey that's fair enough, we aren't mind readers so there is a risk. I base mine on my own lived experience and what I understand the statistics to be in my area so I don't live in fear of this.

    I know there are many communities less safe than mine, so I can't and don't speak for everyone.

    I would also like to make the point that in my suggestions I at no stage said you should not have your guns, in fact I said explicitly you can keep them so long as you are a law abiding citizen of sound mind. If you do need a gun, or it makes you and your family more comfortable having a gun, I am not looking to take that away from you.

    cheers
     
  13. Cubo de Sangre

    Cubo de Sangre Steel Belt

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    Fuck the community. I'll take individual freedom.


    You've never been to India or someplace like Honduras?


    People abuse free speech. That's pretty wide-reaching too. Provided you subscribe to all this Russians on Facebook influencing elections and that type of stuff.


    Concurred!


    1: We've got with the felon prohibition.
    2: That fucks people out of two rights. Guns and due process. Total non-starter.
    3: Being gay used to be a mental illness. We need far more clarity here.


    As usual, this question goes unanswered.

    I appreciated the rest of your post that I didn't comment on. Thanks.
     
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  14. Neph

    Neph Purple Belt

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    This probably immediately explains the difference in our beliefs. I totally understand the desire for individual freedoms, I believe that there are some more that should be sacrificed for the "good of many". I'm not saying you are wrong, btw, just that we sit in different places on the spectrum between individuality and community.


    No, and I don't think it's a fair comparison between the US and a lot of other countries. Ideally you would want to compare yourself against other developed countries rather than saying you are better than El Salvador.


    I'm Australian and we don't have a bill of rights. People talk about free speech, and in practice we do have very free speech. Would you believe however that we have a racial discrimination act that states under 18C:

    Offensive behaviour because of race, colour or national or ethnic origin

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to do an act, otherwise than in private, if:
    (a) the act is reasonably likely, in all the circumstances, to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group of people; and
    (b) the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the other person or of some or all of the people in the group.
    (it continues a little further with some extra definitions that don't add to the subject as a whole)

    Yep, we seriously have it as an offence to cause offence. That's fucked up.

    On the plus side to 99.999% of Australians it has absolutely no meaning or relevancy but simply having it exist is a disgrace.

    I'm okay with these watch lists, at least how they are done in Australia. I expect my government to be incompetent rather than malicious, and from what I understand the people on them are almost universally pieces of shit that they just don't have enough evidence on already. Fuck em.

    I did, just not the way you wanted!

    Cheers, I think the very first point explains where in principle we are different and I understand where you are coming from.
     
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  15. nac386

    nac386 Gold Belt

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    I disagree with this entirely. When a problem is complicated you don't just give up on doing anything to solve it. I think that's bordering on insanity. There are always going to be ways for people to break laws, no matter what th law is.

    That's like saying we should not make heroin illegal until the borders are 100% secure, nobody in the country is selling it online, and doctors stop prescribing opioids. Otherwise we're spinning our wheels, and anybody that says otherwise is out of their element. It all sounds so ridiculous.

    We can lower the enormous number of gun deaths by reducing the enormous number of guns that we sell. I think we should do that by requiring a firearm license. A license that requires you to take a course and pass a test. Not a bullshit 20 minute online course, I'm talking about a driver's ed style course and a complete firearm safety and safe use test. That would absolutely reduce the number of idiots buying guns on a whim, and nobody's rights would be infringed on. But whatever you want, but prove you should be allowed to have it.

    Like I said, I'm a gun owner. I'd have absolutely no problem taking a course and test. If you are not willing to go through that process then you are not somebody who is responsible enough to own a gun.
     
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  16. DespicablePeep

    DespicablePeep Brown Belt

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    You have no clear position, you just like to state that there are no positives to having guns since countries like Japan and UK have lower crime and have very little guns, but forgets that US is a lot more like latin countries than first world countries in europe or asia.

    Brasil is basically US gone wrong, clear picture of what weak individual liberties and strong government can do.
     
  17. DespicablePeep

    DespicablePeep Brown Belt

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    US is multiple countries within, some states have less crime than most European countries. Its silly to compared US in terms of violence to developed countries when US is a young nation, with a mix of races, was a colony and its huge.

    Nobody is going to be safe as Japan because nobody is culturally like Japan, Japan is xenophobic at the very core, there is no mix of cultures, there is no conflict they are just one people.

    I can say the US is pretty well off considering countries as young, with similar size and population are far worse.
     
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  18. Roaming East

    Roaming East Merchant of Death

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    so....since murders by guns are such a statistical anomaly to render them barely relevant (since gun guys love comparing gun deaths to automobile deaths), does that not also imply that the need to arm yourself for self-defense is also so statistically low as to not be worthy of discussion?

    Im just stirring the pot. i love watching statistics get used hypocritically.
     
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  19. Patrick Carey

    Patrick Carey White Belt

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    Its not even that i live in fear because my area sucks, i live in a decent part of town. its just a reality that evil exists in this world. Like you I have never been a victim in my past. But that doesn't stop me from being realistic. I have kncould probably take out any unarmed attacker that i would encounter (220 lbs, bjj brown belt) but that doesnt mean that i should rely on that. As the boy scouts taught me, its all about being prepared. Owning a firearm is not living in fear. Believe me...I have zero fear of any violent encounter at this point.
    Not addressing the 80% lower receiver issue at all in this post. Seriously without addressing that ite hard to have any gun control discussion

    and honestly the idea that people dont want to get a license to defend themselves shouldnt be some kind of proof that they dont deserve guns, thats silly
     
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  20. Cid

    Cid Silver Belt

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    You think a guy who cites the abortion industry as a contributing factor to gun violence is trying to start an intelligent discussion?

    Really?

    I know you're a gun nut but seriously dude...
     

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