Defense for this pass?

Sam02S2K

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hey guys I did a search but couldn't really find anything.

I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on defending a pass when the guy grabs both your legs, lifts you up and then stacks you. I had this pass done to me twice by a much bigger guy and for some reason I'm drawing a blank. any suggestions?
 
As soon as he can grip his hands together you are DONE.

Don't let him. If it's in gi just grab his sleeves pull your elbows back as hard you can and shoulder walk until you can circle your legs back inside.

If it's nogi than hold the wrists, or his knuckles if you have to and shoulder walk like before until you can kick your legs inside again.

Every other options involves essentially countering his move, and countering is tough if he has an advantage (size, experience, more handsome, etc.)
 
There's a slick triangle from there if you can power half/100%/whatever the trapped arm. I will snag a video one second.

You can also stiff arm his elbows and try to drop your hips back down. But once the arms are locked most everything is going to be low percentage.
 
Every other options involves essentially countering his move, and countering is tough if he has an advantage (size, experience, more handsome, etc.)

Ah... yes. The more handsome clause. I have fallen for it. We made eye contact, I swooned subconsciously for a second, and got passed.

Regardless, you have to prevent the stack. Or else you will suffer. Xande seemed to use it during the San Diego World Pro thing, but he never quite got the stack going on Romulo. Romulo was popping up his hips and wiggling around and stuff to prevent the stack from occuring.
 
Ah... yes. The more handsome clause. I have fallen for it. We made eye contact, I swooned subconsciously for a second, and got passed.

Hey, Gorgeous fighters never lose battles.

Just sayin.
 
As soon as he can grip his hands together you are DONE.

That's really not true, especially no gi. Don't get me wrong, you definitely don't want to let him lock his hands, and you should fight like hell to stop that. But if he does, you can still go with it, invert, turtle, recover, etc. And sometimes you can shuffle your legs out the bottom. If you watch high level competitors, the traditional double underhook stack pass is not all that common as far as what works. Guys will try it, but getting under both legs is not necessarily a death sentence for your guard.

But in general, the second he goes for it you want to splay the legs wide, fight his grip, keep your hips as heavy as possible, and scoot back. In addition to stopping him from locking his hands, you need to stop the stack before it starts. Scoot back using your hips and shoulders if needed.
 
Grab his sleeves, hook your feet under his legs (I have long legs lol) after a shoulder walk or quick lean to one side, and wait for them to get frustrated and let go. Sometimes, you can get a really awkward sweep if you can extend and get him broken down with your hooks. There's also an americana looking thing and a back take that involves switching one of your hooked legs to the other side and hooking it next to your other leg. Also a triangle. I don't really want to try to describe it, and it's all kinda silly stuff. Really, not playing around too much with counters and just doing what everyone else said is key haha.
 
did you mean handsome fighters? if you did, just go home and be a family man...

He did quite well, but he'll need more training to pass my guard. I'll meditate, and then submit him.
 
As a stalling tactic in gi, if you can break him down with hip pressure sometimes you can sit up and grab the belt, which can force them to give up the pass (and if they try to transition over a leg, you can often sweep them that direction assuming your legs are long enough to get a hook in from this position.
 
as soon as they dive under, dig for am underhook, lock your palms with the gable grip and press the elbow of the far side arm in front of their face. that makes it very difficult for them to continue with the pass. for instance, he gets both of his arms under my legs, i shoot my left hand under his right armpit, reach over with my right hand and gable grip my left hand. i then use my right to pull my left as deep inside as i can and press my right elbow in front of their face.

once you have that, you can attack in a few different directions.

  • the first thing i try is to kick the leg on the side that i'm underhooking them. so my left is underhooking and my right is pressing their face, i kick my left leg downwards as i use the underhook to pull his shoulder upwards. this motion jerks their arm back inside and you have a nice triangle.
  • you can also attempt to simply switch the angle, feed your right shin to your right hand grip and lock up an armless triangle. it looks stupid, but it's effective as hell and will put people to sleep very quickly.
  • i've also done a sort of armless omoplata where you just swing into the regular omoplata motion, but the pressure on their shoulder is done with your underhook rather than your thigh, but this is mostly to just off-balance them.

braulio explains an armbar from this position here and you can clearly see the triangle like right there for the taking as soon as he clears the arm:



and here's a pretty crappy video of a guy showing the armless triangle to someone. not exactly high quality stuff but enough to get the basic idea:

 
when the guy grabs both your legs, lifts you up and then stacks you.

Lol, I just can't help but think of Kurt Osiander saying, "bro, you fucked up a long time ago."

But really, that is the situation. I'm assuming this is starting from open guard. First, when not engaged don't lay back, sit upright and be prepared to hand fight. Don't let your opponent control both legs and use your hip movement to prevent him from lifting up and driving you to your back. If you can keep your guard moving and dynamic you can prevent him from stacking you.
 
thanks for all the help guys. I'll try these suggestions out next time I'm put in this situation
 
super effective super easy. make sure you clear the head above the hips and sit up straight as you do this or you will be armbarred all day.
although this isnt a double underhook stack it is the same concept and I use it for that pass defense with great success
MG in Action - Elbow Push to Fireman's Carry - YouTube


dont know how to imbed=help please:D
 
as soon as they dive under, dig for am underhook, lock your palms with the gable grip and press the elbow of the far side arm in front of their face. that makes it very difficult for them to continue with the pass. for instance, he gets both of his arms under my legs, i shoot my left hand under his right armpit, reach over with my right hand and gable grip my left hand. i then use my right to pull my left as deep inside as i can and press my right elbow in front of their face.

once you have that, you can attack in a few different directions.

  • the first thing i try is to kick the leg on the side that i'm underhooking them. so my left is underhooking and my right is pressing their face, i kick my left leg downwards as i use the underhook to pull his shoulder upwards. this motion jerks their arm back inside and you have a nice triangle.
  • you can also attempt to simply switch the angle, feed your right shin to your right hand grip and lock up an armless triangle. it looks stupid, but it's effective as hell and will put people to sleep very quickly.
  • i've also done a sort of armless omoplata where you just swing into the regular omoplata motion, but the pressure on their shoulder is done with your underhook rather than your thigh, but this is mostly to just off-balance them.
braulio explains an armbar from this position here and you can clearly see the triangle like right there for the taking as soon as he clears the arm:



and here's a pretty crappy video of a guy showing the armless triangle to someone. not exactly high quality stuff but enough to get the basic idea:



Great post.
 
super effective super easy. make sure you clear the head above the hips and sit up straight as you do this or you will be armbarred all day.
although this isnt a double underhook stack it is the same concept and I use it for that pass defense with great success
MG in Action - Elbow Push to Fireman's Carry - YouTube


dont know how to imbed=help please:D

I really like Marcelo's elbow push, use it all the time. But for a beginner, I don't think he wants to risk having someone get past his guard from the initial point, this is what you should do after the other options haven't worked.
 
I really like Marcelo's elbow push, use it all the time. But for a beginner, I don't think he wants to risk having someone get past his guard from the initial point, this is what you should do after the other options haven't worked.

true i just believe it to be less riskier then feeding your arm through like estima. the first defense i learned for the stack pass was grabbing the wrists while sitting up and feeding your legs down and in between his hips to push him out....i have found though as the higher levels that move requires me to get in a leg lock battle and ehhh id rather take my chances elsewhere lol
 
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