Defense Contributions of Nato Countries vs the Social Welfare Spending of Nato Countries

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Steve-French, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I doubt that we would actually up our social welfare spending even if the other nations were spending 3% on military spending. Which is why I think bringing up Europe's social welfare spending is a red herring. It implies that our military spending allows them to hone these social welfare programs. It also implies that the 2 things are trade offs - either you have 2% of military spending or you have robust social welfare programs.

    To my way of thinking, making that implied connection is just more divisive reasoning. It leads some Americans to believe that Europe is essentially taking advantage of us. And that makes them our enemies, not our allies.
     
  2. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    For our programs? Sure but funding our programs has nothing to do with other countries NATO spending.
     
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  3. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

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    Didn’t trump just get an additional 33 billion for this btw
     
  4. MadSquabbles500

    MadSquabbles500 Steel Belt

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    And Murka is still only at 3.6% of our budget, dang Murka you go girl

    <BirdieOwn> <BirdieOwn> <BirdieOwn>
     
  5. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

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    Sure it does
    Between this and getting Mexico to enforce its border possibly we’re probably looking at 100billion. THat would make a dent.
     
  6. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    No it really doesn't. Let's say Germany increases their military spending to 2%. How exactly does that fund our social welfare programs?
     
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  7. 2arctanx

    2arctanx Banned Banned

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    if you take into account all the Afirmative action and food stamps in the US it far exceeds any social welfare program europe has. its another cause of amerimutts should mind their own business.
     
  8. Trotsky

    Trotsky Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Don't blame NATO allies for the United States' voters being idiots.
     
  9. MayhemMonkey

    MayhemMonkey ... Im kind of a big deal!

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    people do realise that the 2% target was set to be achieved by 2024 dont they?

    someone should tell trump
     
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  10. spamking

    spamking Mmm Pizza Rolls

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    Defense and force protection doesn't always = killing people . . .
     
  11. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    I wouldn't have such a problem with being the world's watchdog if we were shown a bit more respect for it.
     
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  12. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Thats 6 years away. 6 years more that the US pays its bills.
     
  13. spamking

    spamking Mmm Pizza Rolls

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    Yeah . . . the NATO countries have enough idiots on their own . . .
     
  14. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    One point that pretty much everyone overlooks is that the US budget is based on defense and Power projection, we don't need an all nuclear sub fleet and over 10 carrier groups to guard the coastal US.
    Add to that the US is in a number of other defensive pact organizations and if you play it out it becomes pretty clear that the GDP expenditures aren't going to be apples to apples.
    Some of the larger countries should definitely up their expenditure, but for most it isn't really that much of a gain, let's face it are we really going to be that much better off if Luxembourg contributes that much more to their defense budget? Also had to laugh at Greece's percentage of their GDP compared to the actual cash value of that GDP, I'd give them a pass for a few years until they actually got their economy together, just provide logistic support and troops when needed.
     
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  15. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

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    Trump just got them to commit 33 billion. That’s 33 less we could spend. Now you just need dmx to take the case for trump for spending that money on ss
     
  16. Black Helicopters

    Black Helicopters Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card Banned

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    This is all defensive spending so that in the event of war, everyone contributes. This isn't donating money to the American war machine. They're able to be extremely generous in part because of the American taxpayer funding the military so that nobody dares invade their space.
     
  17. MayhemMonkey

    MayhemMonkey ... Im kind of a big deal!

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    and? Nobody is asking you to "pay the bills".... meet your 2% like everyone else is aiming to do and stop acting like you are being victimised.... YOU make the choice on where you spend your budget. Not us.
     
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  18. cincymma79

    cincymma79 Silver Belt

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    Asking other countries to pay for their defense is racist
     
  19. Ling Ling

    Ling Ling Green Belt

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    Europe has been militarily weak for many decades. They have never seriously pulled their own weight. During the most aggressive period of Soviet expansion NATO wouldn't have been able to stop the Soviets doing much of anything without resorting to nuclear weapons, without the United States being not only involved, but doing the lions share of the fighting.
     
  20. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    We "could" spend $33 billion less? What's the basis for assuming that we intend to reduce our military spending in reciprocity?

    Like I said, Germany increasing their spending doesn't help our social welfare programs. They could spend $100 billion and we would still be dependent on local interest in increasing our social welfare spending.

    And even if we chose to reciprocally reduce our military spending by $33 billion, there's nothing that stops us from taking the $33 billion and spending it on building wall or tax cuts. There's no mechanism by which the reduced spending on military actions is redirected to social welfare programs.

    Which just leaves Congressional choice.

    Have you read anything where Congress or the POTUS says we want to cut back military spending? Have you read anything that says they want to increase social welfare spending? Anything where they tie to 2 together, military spending and social welfare spending?

    It's a red herring. NATO allies should spend their 2% but it has nothing to do with social welfare spending.
     

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