Defending and Countering Problems

[Ilk]

Ok for a long time now I have been noticing that I can not defend properly nor I can counter properly. I can only attack. Lets clear that up.

I can jab and protect myself. I can 1-2 and do the same. I can do a combo and get out safely. However the moment I stop pressuring and let the other fighter fight I have no clue what to do.

Yesterday I was sparring a friend of mine, who is huge and very fit, but it was his 2nd spar. I let him work of course, but even he humiliated my defence. I felt very bad. He then gained confidence and I could not even counter him. Nothing worked really. Only when I have been attacking non stop I was putting him on the back foot. As soon as he starts attacking and I get more defensive approach to practice defending he was landing and landing and landing and I could not even counter again.

I also noticed I have problems exchanging hits. I have been so defensive in my attacks, that as soon as I get challenged and countered I panic and get to a safe distance instead of exchanging or countering too.

I am not sure if it is a mental problem. I am not sure if I should let my newbie friend actually work on me so I practice defence and counters and just forget about my ego. I am not sure I can improve from this situation. Anyone has a clue or ideas what to practice, what to do?

 

[Ilk]

Anyone with suggestions how to work on your defence and countering?

 

[Sano]

I think many of us have been there. Some newbie who doesn't know what he's doing, going hard and fast and you're getting caught. Especially if you're around intermediate level.

Yes, doing specific defensive drills would be good. You can practice close distance blocks and catching. You can practice slips from mid/long distance. You can practice parries. You can practice being swarmed and taking angles. Do it slow, do it many many times and keep working.

The thing is though, that having good defense is much more than practicing drills. You can practice a few things, but if you don't understand the PRINCIPLES behind defense then it'll be hard. A guy had a real nice thread on proactive defense, meaning, you force certain attacks out of them. It's about being able to draw shots out, pulling back, mixing in your guards, parries, slips, rolls, using your hips, being able to manipulate your weight from front to back, taking angles out and away, being able to cover up and catch the shots if he's swarming. Ultimately it's about having good positioning, aka. being in a good position to recieve, move or attack. Having a good stance and moving smart. Control.

It's also a very mental thing not to panic. Drills will help with that. When you do a drill, have a clear purpose in mind and think about how good your stance is when doing things. It's all about good fundamentals. Relax, build it up slowly.

 

[Ilk]

Can you link me that topic, I remember reading it and even commenting on it.

See I kind of have a proactive defence, when attacking. I have drilled over and over getting in, hitting and getting out. Head movement during the combos, steps, circling and etc. However once I leave it to the opponent he gets me. Perhaps I need non stop to be proactive, maybe that is what I get wrong... not letting it on my reflexes but constantly proactively working even when defending.

I need to drill more and to shadow box more it seems. Fun fact, although I smoke and my friend has much better cardio he gassed out and quit after 5 rounds, while I barely sweat It meant I am relaxed and fluid and it made me very happy.

 

[Sano]

What I meant about proactive is not just doing things on autopilot and attacking constantly, it's more the ability to draw specific attacks out of your opponent. If you limit his options and you know what he's going to do, then it's a lot easier to defend against it.

I can't remember what the thread was called. It didn't go into specifics but it showed some nice considerations. Maybe you should upload a video of your sparring sessions?

PS: I just saw a video of you working the bag in the log session and I can see why you might be having some problems.

 

[Ilk]

Yeah it was my first time recording and I also saw some stuff such as being to lean forward and that my head goes too forward when I hit. I should perhaps record more.
What is your take on that video?

 

[Sano]

Yeah it was my first time recording and I also saw some stuff such as being to lean forward and that my head goes too forward when I hit. I should perhaps record more.
What is your take on that video?

The same as you. You're very front foot heavy, you lead with your head and you lose your stance. I know when a camera is on you want to up the tempo, but better to do it right. Keep your weight further back, don't lean when you punch, keep your back straight and stay in your stance. It's much easier to defend that way as well.

Definitely record videos over time. It helps.

 

[rmongler]

Think of it like this; whats stopping you from just, walking up to your opponent, and knocking him out? The fear that he might hit you first? Thats it right there.

Fitan is not like a fitan gaem, people don't have big hp bars that drain slowly over time; anyone can knock out pretty much anyone else with one good solid hit. So why don't we see every fight end in knockouts within seconds? Because when striking in neutral, good defense and good offense are in fact the same thing.

If your opponent does not fear stepping in on you, you will get beat up. If he knows that every time he steps into a certain range, he will get popped, he will be much more respectful (hesitant, cowardly). If you can judge the range, better than he can judge the range, you will pop him more than he pops you.

 

[Ilk]

I actually did a private session at 7 am today. I was so angry with my bad habit. I called yesterday a 79 years old coach who has an olympic medal in boxing and explained him the situation. Showed the video to him. He laughed at it and we worked on my posture, my feet and snapping my shots. 1 hour of jabbing, footwork, 1-2, 1-1-2.

Basically my stance has been way too wide. He showed me the boxing stance first and then we worked something similar which is not that bladed. He explained it is just another boxing stance. Explained me to transfer weight. Explained to me jump often at a spot to check my stance and how good my feet are staying.
Then footwork, he wanted way smaller steps, way way smaller steps. Again jumping up relaxed to check my feet if they are wide.
Snapping the shots - less hip rotation, more snap that comes from the back foot and weight transfer. When you snap like he asks your hands come very fast into a defending position. Again feet are narrow, steps are small, just weight transfer and a snap. Like if you are hitting with a skewer or a small sword. Very relaxed hands, rotating the hands and putting strenght only at the end.
Getting the posture up all the time, he was shouting at me to relax and get up, chin down. Arms relaxed, back relaxed, chin down, feet relaxed.

Very, very good experience that costed me only 5 Euro. I am in love with this coach, hopefully he can help me lose some bad habits.

I will ask to record one of his sessions. Everything he says and teaches is gold. I have been in few countries and few coaches, but his simplicity and explanations are just gold. If he was not born in this small town, he would definitely be one of the best coaches out there.

 

[Sano]

I actually did a private session at 7 am today. I was so angry with my bad habit. I called yesterday a 79 years old coach who has an olympic medal in boxing and explained him the situation. Showed the video to him. He laughed at it and we worked on my posture, my feet and snapping my shots. 1 hour of jabbing, footwork, 1-2, 1-1-2.

Basically my stance has been way too wide. He showed me the boxing stance first and then we worked something similar which is not that bladed. He explained it is just another boxing stance. Explained me to transfer weight. Explained to me jump often at a spot to check my stance and how good my feet are staying.
Then footwork, he wanted way smaller steps, way way smaller steps. Again jumping up relaxed to check my feet if they are wide.
Snapping the shots - less hip rotation, more snap that comes from the back foot and weight transfer. When you snap like he asks your hands come very fast into a defending position. Again feet are narrow, steps are small, just weight transfer and a snap. Like if you are hitting with a skewer or a small sword. Very relaxed hands, rotating the hands and putting strenght only at the end.
Getting the posture up all the time, he was shouting at me to relax and get up, chin down. Arms relaxed, back relaxed, chin down, feet relaxed.

Very, very good experience that costed me only 5 Euro. I am in love with this coach, hopefully he can help me lose some bad habits.

I will ask to record one of his sessions. Everything he says and teaches is gold. I have been in few countries and few coaches, but his simplicity and explanations are just gold. If he was not born in this small town, he would definitely be one of the best coaches out there.

Sounds good!

 

[j123]

Ok for a long time now I have been noticing that I can not defend properly nor I can counter properly. I can only attack. Lets clear that up.

I can jab and protect myself. I can 1-2 and do the same. I can do a combo and get out safely. However the moment I stop pressuring and let the other fighter fight I have no clue what to do.

Yesterday I was sparring a friend of mine, who is huge and very fit, but it was his 2nd spar. I let him work of course, but even he humiliated my defence. I felt very bad. He then gained confidence and I could not even counter him. Nothing worked really. Only when I have been attacking non stop I was putting him on the back foot. As soon as he starts attacking and I get more defensive approach to practice defending he was landing and landing and landing and I could not even counter again.

I also noticed I have problems exchanging hits. I have been so defensive in my attacks, that as soon as I get challenged and countered I panic and get to a safe distance instead of exchanging or countering too.

I am not sure if it is a mental problem. I am not sure if I should let my newbie friend actually work on me so I practice defence and counters and just forget about my ego. I am not sure I can improve from this situation. Anyone has a clue or ideas what to practice, what to do?

This is something most people deal with when new.

Imo it takes time. Bailing after getting countered is new guy 101. Its difficult at your stage, but you have to finish your combinations despite getting hit.

What helped me was getting hit a bit so I got used to it, and not giving a crap afterwards. The best sessions for this was with the advanced guys/fighters.

Right now have 1-2 basic combos for interrupting and drill that to death. When you get hit, no matter what, you retaliate, no "ah damn, he punched me and I was gonna counter on a kick, I'll do it next time" (next time never comes). After you interrupt, go back on the offense ASAP.

Spoiler

Picture striking like a tug o war contest, the other team pulls you past your side (-), then you retaliate by pulling it back to neutral; Now you have to pull to your side (+) otherwise they'll do it as well, and you won't win if you can't pull them to you.

Two basic ones would be:
when punched: kick, 3, 2
when kicked: 2, 3, kick

and you always go forward at this point. Fighting off the ropes is something you can do once you get more advanced. At your stage, ring/cage control is very important and building a habit of going backwards will cost you in decisions when you decide to compete.

 

[Ilk]

I do not want to compete really. I do it for the sport and to learn to fight a bit.

I am concentrating on boxing a bit now. Perhaps will resume to kick boxing in October, but I need to fix my basic boxing technique first and I really found a very good coach for the first time. Some old school boxing genius who explains stuff very easily and shows them very nice.

I was wondering the following j123. What would be good combos to drill in pure boxing rules because this is what I train and spar mostly on - boxing.
Second question - how do you drill these without a partner? I mean how do you train being countered or hit and initiate a combo?
I perhaps have an idea how to implement them in partner drills when I do it with a friend I got hooked into the fight sports.

 

[j123]

I do not want to compete really. I do it for the sport and to learn to fight a bit.

I am concentrating on boxing a bit now. Perhaps will resume to kick boxing in October, but I need to fix my basic boxing technique first and I really found a very good coach for the first time. Some old school boxing genius who explains stuff very easily and shows them very nice.

I was wondering the following j123. What would be good combos to drill in pure boxing rules because this is what I train and spar mostly on - boxing.
Second question - how do you drill these without a partner? I mean how do you train being countered or hit and initiate a combo?
I perhaps have an idea how to implement them in partner drills when I do it with a friend I got hooked into the fight sports.

For boxing I really don't know, my striking exp. is purely with MT/KB. For hands, I usually counter by stepping off the line and throwing something, or parrying to counters.

@a guy is much better for boxing related stuff than me.

You really do need a partner to get a live drill, your alternative with a friend sounds fine. Is there a reason for lack of training partners?

 

[Ilk]

For boxing I really don't know, my striking exp. is purely with MT/KB. For hands, I usually counter by stepping off the line and throwing something, or parrying to counters.

@a guy is much better for boxing related stuff than me.

You really do need a partner to get a live drill, your alternative with a friend sounds fine. Is there a reason for lack of training partners?

Yes, all the coaches in my town do mostly private sessions, no groups anymore. They want to earn some money as fight sports are getting popular.
Even if we are 2-3 people at the private session we still almost do not do partnered drills.
If we are 2 the coaches usually hold pads for 40 mins - doing 2 min rounds with one person and then exchange. Ending with 3-4 rounds of partner drills with some very simple exchanges.
If we are 3 then there are 2 min pads, 2mins bag, 2 mins rest or something like that. The coaches try to watch you on the bag and correct you too, at least the last one.

There are only 2 legit coaches in the town with 3-4 gyms. One is dedicated pro MMA fighter, who also fought in k1 kickboxing rules. He calls you for spars if you go at least 2-3 times per week for a month. The spars are at Saturday with all the people who train with him, there are lots of legit amateur fighters. One of them did silver at European Cup at kick boxing and just a few days ago won the national one, so he is going to Euros again. However the coach does not really explain much. He teaches mainly flow on the pads and he teaches technique that is good enough for MMA.

The other one I found yesterday. Very good boxing explanation, teaches only the very basics for a long time. Teaches how to footwork, correct posture, snapping the hits, some side stepping according the the people that has been with him. He does not like power, partner drills and spars. Only technique. Only hitting the pads and bagwork.

The other coaches are too busy sending unprepared fighters to amateur competitions and there are some crazy knock outs going on in their classes. It is not safe to train there as the environment is uncontrolled. There are lots of people on steroids sparring full power to impress the coaches and be send to competitions.

So basically no legit partner drills or partners to spar or drill. Most gyms require a coach in order to use the rings. So even me and my friend go to the yard of one non working school to train.

 

[j123]

Yes, all the coaches in my town do mostly private sessions, no groups anymore. They want to earn some money as fight sports are getting popular.
Even if we are 2-3 people at the private session we still almost do not do partnered drills.
If we are 2 the coaches usually hold pads for 40 mins - doing 2 min rounds with one person and then exchange. Ending with 3-4 rounds of partner drills with some very simple exchanges.
If we are 3 then there are 2 min pads, 2mins bag, 2 mins rest or something like that. The coaches try to watch you on the bag and correct you too, at least the last one.

There are only 2 legit coaches in the town with 3-4 gyms. One is dedicated pro MMA fighter, who also fought in k1 kickboxing rules. He calls you for spars if you go at least 2-3 times per week for a month. The spars are at Saturday with all the people who train with him, there are lots of legit amateur fighters. One of them did silver at European Cup at kick boxing and just a few days ago won the national one, so he is going to Euros again. However the coach does not really explain much. He teaches mainly flow on the pads and he teaches technique that is good enough for MMA.

The other one I found yesterday. Very good boxing explanation, teaches only the very basics for a long time. Teaches how to footwork, correct posture, snapping the hits, some side stepping according the the people that has been with him. He does not like power, partner drills and spars. Only technique. Only hitting the pads and bagwork.

The other coaches are too busy sending unprepared fighters to amateur competitions and there are some crazy knock outs going on in their classes. It is not safe to train there as the environment is uncontrolled. There are lots of people on steroids sparring full power to impress the coaches and be send to competitions.

So basically no legit partner drills or partners to spar or drill. Most gyms require a coach in order to use the rings. So even me and my friend go to the yard of one non working school to train.

Damn that sucks. On one hand you have a scam going on, on the other hand you have retarded gym wars. Only that boxer you mentioned sounds good. I'm guessing its going to be costly with him then.

Give the friend training thing a shot and see how it goes. Use the cards you're dealt with. Prior to me becoming intermediate, 2 of our top guys made use of what they have and still made great progress training with fresh and new people amateurs. You really just assign drills to the newer guys, get them on the same page, then have them work with you on something you want to drill and work.