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Today :
MYTH: BJJ was already a dominant Martial Art prior to UFC 1, in Brazil, during the Vale Tudo Era..
In other words: Nobody knew how to deal with BJJ prior to the 1st UFC events...
Note: this thread can be seen as an extension of these ones:
The truth is that, between the 1930s & 1980s, BJJ was not that dominant in Brazil...
Note: I wont use the Carlos Gracie vs. Manoel Rufino dos Santos fight here [1931], since
it was a controversial one (Rufino won when Carlos didnt want to get back to the ring).
Between the 1930s and the 1950s, George Gracie had:
vs Roberto Ruhmann: 1W-3L
vs Grillo: 1W-1L
vs Yassuiti Ono: 1W-1L
vs Budip: 0W-1L
vs Jack Russel: 1W-2L
vs Orlando Americo da Silva "Dudu": 0W-1L-1D
vs Lino: 0W-1L
vs Geo Omori: 2 Draws
vs Wladek Zbyszko: 1L
vs Takeo Yano : 1W-1L-4 draws
He also lost a fight vs Master Tatu (Luta Livre founder):
Euclydes Pereira [Luta Livre/Karate/Boxe/Capoeira] & Ivan Gomes [Luta Livre/Judo]
can be both considered the Gracies´ nemeses.
Euclydes Pereira :
- 6 fights with Waldemar Santana [adopted by the Gracies]:
6 W & 1 D
- 1 fight with Carlson Gracie :
1 W
Ivan Gomes :
- 10 fights with Waldemar Santana:
6 W - 4 D
- 1 fight with Carlson Gracie:
1 Draw
Ivan Gomes, after his epic fight with Carlson Gracie [draw] in 1963, joined him and learnt about BJJ (promising to never challenge him again).
B4 meetin´ him, Ivan was trainin´ his ground game with Agatangelo & José Maria Freire (Zé Maria), former student of Nilo Veloso (a George Gracie´s student).
But it was Osmar Mousinho “Biuce” who introduced Ivan to JJ.
That said, he was pretty well-rounded, strikin´& wrasslin too, and had a legit submission game (deadly heel hooks> Carlson even said once that he believed he was the creator of this technique...)
He competed in Vale Tudo and Boxing too.
Overall, Luta Livre dudes like Ivan Gomes and Euclydes Pereira were dominating them.
In 1988, Eugenio Tadeu challenged Royler behind closed doors, and it was a competiive bout,a draw...there was a weight difference, indeed.. I would say Eugenio was a lil bit more dominant...
Then u have the original famous Challenge Luta Livre vs BJJ 1984:
(with a Gracie student Referee)
Eugenio Tadeu [Luta Livre] destroyed Renan Pitanguy [BJJ]
Inácio Aragão [BJJ] defeated Bruce Lucio [Luta Livre] (RNC)
Draw between Marco Huas [Luta Livre] and Pinduka [BJJ]... You can watch the fight and try to decide who won... Both claimed victory...(Pinduka said under Modern Rules, he would have won, while Ruas claimed that he inflicted more damage from the bottom)
Marcelo Behring [BJJ] destroyed Flavio Molina [MT>Luta Livre] (who was injured b4 the fight, knee)
The 2nd challenge was more lopsided though, I agree ...
Obs> the fight between Eugenio and Wallid was controversial though:
BJJ students at ringside didnt let Eugenio go back to the ring, according to Eugenio.(at that time, crowds were very pro-Gracies and even the ref was more often than not a GJJ student)
[Modern] Fights - BJJ vs Luta Livre Rivalry:
MYTH: BJJ was already a dominant Martial Art prior to UFC 1, in Brazil, during the Vale Tudo Era..
In other words: Nobody knew how to deal with BJJ prior to the 1st UFC events...
Note: this thread can be seen as an extension of these ones:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-35-the-samurai-the-missin´-link-in-bjj-evolution.3994271/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...d-to-face-2-opponents-in-the-ring-33.3924541/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...enio-tadeu-climb-back-in-the-ring-34.3933271/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-ufc-1-was-really-born-41.3964531/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...d-to-face-2-opponents-in-the-ring-33.3924541/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...enio-tadeu-climb-back-in-the-ring-34.3933271/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-day-ufc-1-was-really-born-41.3964531/
The truth is that, between the 1930s & 1980s, BJJ was not that dominant in Brazil...
Note: I wont use the Carlos Gracie vs. Manoel Rufino dos Santos fight here [1931], since
it was a controversial one (Rufino won when Carlos didnt want to get back to the ring).
Between the 1930s and the 1950s, George Gracie had:
vs Roberto Ruhmann: 1W-3L
vs Grillo: 1W-1L
vs Yassuiti Ono: 1W-1L
vs Budip: 0W-1L
vs Jack Russel: 1W-2L
vs Orlando Americo da Silva "Dudu": 0W-1L-1D
vs Lino: 0W-1L
vs Geo Omori: 2 Draws
vs Wladek Zbyszko: 1L
vs Takeo Yano : 1W-1L-4 draws
He also lost a fight vs Master Tatu (Luta Livre founder):
Euclydes Pereira [Luta Livre/Karate/Boxe/Capoeira] & Ivan Gomes [Luta Livre/Judo]
can be both considered the Gracies´ nemeses.
Euclydes Pereira :
- 6 fights with Waldemar Santana [adopted by the Gracies]:
6 W & 1 D
- 1 fight with Carlson Gracie :
1 W
Ivan Gomes :
- 10 fights with Waldemar Santana:
6 W - 4 D
- 1 fight with Carlson Gracie:
1 Draw
Ivan Gomes, after his epic fight with Carlson Gracie [draw] in 1963, joined him and learnt about BJJ (promising to never challenge him again).
B4 meetin´ him, Ivan was trainin´ his ground game with Agatangelo & José Maria Freire (Zé Maria), former student of Nilo Veloso (a George Gracie´s student).
But it was Osmar Mousinho “Biuce” who introduced Ivan to JJ.
That said, he was pretty well-rounded, strikin´& wrasslin too, and had a legit submission game (deadly heel hooks> Carlson even said once that he believed he was the creator of this technique...)
He competed in Vale Tudo and Boxing too.
Overall, Luta Livre dudes like Ivan Gomes and Euclydes Pereira were dominating them.
In 1988, Eugenio Tadeu challenged Royler behind closed doors, and it was a competiive bout,a draw...there was a weight difference, indeed.. I would say Eugenio was a lil bit more dominant...
Then u have the original famous Challenge Luta Livre vs BJJ 1984:
(with a Gracie student Referee)
Eugenio Tadeu [Luta Livre] destroyed Renan Pitanguy [BJJ]
Inácio Aragão [BJJ] defeated Bruce Lucio [Luta Livre] (RNC)
Draw between Marco Huas [Luta Livre] and Pinduka [BJJ]... You can watch the fight and try to decide who won... Both claimed victory...(Pinduka said under Modern Rules, he would have won, while Ruas claimed that he inflicted more damage from the bottom)
Marcelo Behring [BJJ] destroyed Flavio Molina [MT>Luta Livre] (who was injured b4 the fight, knee)
The 2nd challenge was more lopsided though, I agree ...
Obs> the fight between Eugenio and Wallid was controversial though:
BJJ students at ringside didnt let Eugenio go back to the ring, according to Eugenio.(at that time, crowds were very pro-Gracies and even the ref was more often than not a GJJ student)
[Modern] Fights - BJJ vs Luta Livre Rivalry:
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-24-carlson´s-silence.3879035/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-21-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-32-where´s-dat-suplex-monster.3954795/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-21-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-32-where´s-dat-suplex-monster.3954795/
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