Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 1] - Hoyce & His Gi @ UFC 1.

What was wrong with Remco Pardoel, when he got mounted by Marco Ruas? Just without any strike he immediately tapped!!
RUAS had three DAVID VS GOLIATH Matches on one night in that Tournament!!
 
What was wrong with Remco Pardoel, when he got mounted by Marco Ruas? Just without any strike he immediately tapped!!
RUAS had three DAVID VS GOLIATH Matches on one night in that Tournament!!
Even Huas was slightly "disgusted" to see that weird tap, when he got up...
 
What was wrong with Remco Pardoel, when he got mounted by Marco Ruas? Just without any strike he immediately tapped!!
RUAS had three DAVID VS GOLIATH Matches on one night in that Tournament!!
Marco Huas UFC7.gif
 
It looks like he was thinking it was a act of cowardnes or something!

I also like the final against Paul Varelans who showed allot of heart but was dismantle by Ruas!!
 
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It looks like he was thinking it was a act cowardnes or something!

I also like the final against Paul Varelans who showed allot of heart but was dismantle by Ruas!!
He didnt understand that quick tap, indeed...

Later, Pardoel claimed that Huas was greased...

Anyway, Pardoel also used the fence shamelessly... It is what it is...
 
He didnt understand that quick tap, indeed...

Later, Pardoel claimed that Huas was greased...

Anyway, Pardoel also used the fence shamelessly... It is what it is...

He also asked for a rematch against Ruas but if you look at his record he never fought a elite fighter of Ruas caliber again. His best win was against Orlando Wiet with the multiple elbows. His best loses how strange that might sound where against Royce and Ruas.
 
He also asked for a rematch against Ruas but if you look at his record he never fought a elite fighter of Ruas caliber again. His best win was against Orlando Wiet with the multiple elbows. His best loses how strange that might sound where against Royce and Ruas.
He also fought Suzuki in Pancrase, and lost... He did beat Tiger White in Pancrase, but Tiger was still transitionnin´to MMA in Pancrase...
 
Gono Btw allot of people already forgot Ruas but for me it is one of my favorite fighters. They always talk about Rickson Gracie vs Marco Ruas the ultimate Brazilian clash that didn't happen! Even when he fought Pinduka to a draw against a black belt heavyweight from Carlson Gracie team they didn't find the need to step up and challenge him for a rematch. So if there was no match between Marco and Rickson what about if they fought each other competition? Think about what just have happend if Rickson for example had fought against Paul varelans how would that fight have gone or how would Ruas have fought against Yamamoto. Just switch the competition they both faced. I always think if i look to the competition that Rickson faced was mediocre the only name on his record who was good was Funaki and he was so past his prime and banged up he was again an easy catch for Rickson!
 
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Gono Btw allot of people already forgot Ruas but for me it is one of my favorite fighters. They always talk about Rickson Gracie vs Marco Ruas the ultimate Brazilian clash that didn't happen! Even when he fought Pinduka to a draw against a black belt heavyweight from Carlson Gracie team they didn't find the need to step up and challenge him for a rematch. So if there was no match between Marco and Rickson what about if they fought each other competition? This is just what have happend if Rickson for example had fought against Paul varelans how would that fight have gone or how would Ruas have fought against Yamamoto. Just switch the competition they both faced.
They actually went from Helson to Henzo to Fred Bomba, and then settled for Pinduka...

But after the fight, and after UFC7, nobody wanted to fight him in Brazil (except Vitor Gracie, but, as Huas said, he was only a 'blue belt')...

A promotor actually came up with an offer back in the days, Huas agreed and Hickson got somethin´ like 1M [must have been Brazilian Cruzeiros... a lot of money for the time, but I cant really translate it into modern value) , but he preferred to go to Japan...
 
Royce wore the gi to represent jiu-jitsu in its purest form and to sell Gracie Jiu Jitsu. the gi is the visual reminder of jiu jitsu (in his case). if you look at the participants of UFC 1, only ken (on paper) had any ground game experience, and even then his was no-gi catch wrestling, with prior training in professional wrestling. no one on that card knew or understood what to do with it. eugenio tadeu w/ luta livre and familiarity w/ BJJ (even as a rival system) gave him an understanding of what to do with the gi/how to counter it in a real fight situation.

Rickson wouldn't fight people he knew could knock him out, including both Ruas and Bas.
 
Royce wore the gi to represent jiu-jitsu in its purest form and to sell Gracie Jiu Jitsu. the gi is the visual reminder of jiu jitsu (in his case). if you look at the participants of UFC 1, only ken (on paper) had any ground game experience, and even then his was no-gi catch wrestling, with prior training in professional wrestling. no one on that card knew or understood what to do with it. eugenio tadeu w/ luta livre and familiarity w/ BJJ (even as a rival system) gave him an understanding of what to do with the gi/how to counter it in a real fight situation.

Rickson wouldn't fight people he knew could knock him out, including both Ruas and Bas.

Hmmm... Actually, Hoyce was one of the very few BJJ dudes who chose to wear a Gi in a Vale Tudo Fight Configuration:
Hickson or Hoyler (in Brazil or Japan) [Hoyler vs Tadeu in a fight behind closed doors], Henzo (in the Brazil,States,Japan),George in the 1930s-40s-50s, Waldemar (in his non-Helio Vale Tudo fights),Carlson,... even Carlson Jr, The 'Prince of JJ" (in the States)...most of them (except: Hoyce,Helio, Pitanguy) chose to fight without Gi.

So the 'marketing' argument is somehow inaccurate...
Hoyce actually started to officially change his mind in the Akebono fight, just after Yoshida 1...But he still kept the pants...

During the BJJ vs Luta Livre Challenge (1984), the Luta Livre team had to hire Brunocilla as a coach to enhance their ground game (they were all very raw, Marco Huas was the best of the 4, Tadeu could only be considered a blue belt for instance), so they had a very limited knowledge of the ground game, they were expected to be slaughtered actually...

Ken´s mistake, unlike Tadeu vs Pitanguy or Huas vs Pardoel, was that he fought @ UFC 1 as if he were fightin´@ Pancrase, in a completely different Fight Configuration. With his strength (and juice,obviously), [much bigger] Ken could/should have mauled WW Hoyce, and avoided to be dragged to the ground. Heck, even HWs Kimo or Beast failed to take Ken down..
 
Hmmm... Actually, Hoyce was one of the very few BJJ dudes who chose to wear a Gi in a Vale Tudo Fight Configuration:
Hickson or Hoyler (in Brazil or Japan) [Hoyler vs Tadeu in a fight behind closed doors], Henzo (in the Brazil,States,Japan),George in the 1930s-40s-50s, Waldemar (in his non-Helio Vale Tudo fights),Carlson,... even Carlson Jr, The 'Prince of JJ" (in the States)...most of them (except: Hoyce,Helio, Pitanguy) chose to fight without Gi.

So the 'marketing' argument is somehow inaccurate...
Hoyce actually started to officially change his mind in the Akebono fight, just after Yoshida 1...But he still kept the pants...

During the BJJ vs Luta Livre Challenge (1984), the Luta Livre team had to hire Brunocilla as a coach to enhance their ground game (they were all very raw, Marco Huas was the best of the 4, Tadeu could only be considered a blue belt for instance), so they had a very limited knowledge of the ground game, they were expected to be slaughtered actually...

Ken´s mistake, unlike Tadeu vs Pitanguy or Huas vs Pardoel, was that he fought @ UFC 1 as if he were fightin´@ Pancrase, in a completely different Fight Configuration. With his strength (and juice,obviously), [much bigger] Ken could/should have mauled WW Hoyce, and avoided to be dragged to the ground. Heck, even HWs Kimo or Beast failed to take Ken down..
I don't think you understood my post.
 
I don't think you understood my post.
ah you mainly talked about Hickson duckin´Huas (vs Bas, Hickson was already way past his physical prime realistically though):

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and Hoyce usin´his Gi as a marketing tool only, which is inaccurate...
and Tadeu somehow negatin´Pitanguy´s BJJ thanks to his [limited] knowledge about the BJJ guard, which is inaccurate too.
 
ah you mainly talked about Hickson duckin´Huas (vs Bas, Hickson was already way past his physical prime realistically though):

View attachment 497327

and Hoyce usin´his Gi as a marketing tool only, which is inaccurate...
and Tadeu somehow negatin´Pitanguy´s BJJ thanks to his [limited] knowledge about the BJJ guard, which is inaccurate too.
Royce gi as a marketing tool is relevant to ufc 1 because the event was a marketing tool for gracie JJ put forth by rorion gracie. that's a fact. u mentioned him changing thoughts in the akebono fight which 11 years after, and by that time gracie jj was already world wide. tadeu was already familiar with bjj at the time by knowing what it was, I made no mention of his guard. are you saying that was tadeu's first fight ever against a bjj opponent? or a clothed opponent in a street fight? no one in ufc 1 knew what bjj was nor how to deal with it. Royce had to win ufc 1 in order for gracie jiu jitsu to be marketable. he did, and it was. rorion specifically picked Royce to represent the family in ufc 1 because he was a skinny, unassuming guy that could show the world how Gracie Jiu Jitsu could be used to defeat bigger, stronger opponents. and it worked. if they had chosen no gi, muscular build Rickson, the martial arts world and general public would not have cared as much.
 
Royce gi as a marketing tool is relevant to ufc 1 because the event was a marketing tool for gracie JJ put forth by rorion gracie. that's a fact. u mentioned him changing thoughts in the akebono fight which 11 years after, and by that time gracie jj was already world wide. tadeu was already familiar with bjj at the time by knowing what it was, I made no mention of his guard. are you saying that was tadeu's first fight ever against a bjj opponent? or a clothed opponent in a street fight? no one in ufc 1 knew what bjj was nor how to deal with it. Royce had to win ufc 1 in order for gracie jiu jitsu to be marketable. he did, and it was. rorion specifically picked Royce to represent the family in ufc 1 because he was a skinny, unassuming guy that could show the world how Gracie Jiu Jitsu could be used to defeat bigger, stronger opponents. and it worked. if they had chosen no gi, muscular build Rickson, the martial arts world and general public would not have cared as much.
yeah, this is all Horion´s propaganda you´re repeatin´,Im afraid...

1/ Horion didnt choose Hoyce coz he was a "skinny, unassuming guy", like ya said, or coz he was the "smallest" Gracie like others keep sayin´ around here.

That´s a myth.

Over Hoyler?: perhaps more technical than Hoyce, but he realistically would have been over-powered by HWs

Over Henzo?: better striking than Hoyce, less agile in the scrambles on the ground, Hoyce with the better chin..

imo both Henzo & Hoyler are more textbook BJJ when it comes to transitionning to MMA...

Now: WW Hoyce (178 lbs) was much bigger than FW/LW Hoyler, and WW Hoyce was also taller than WW Henzo.

Now, consider that Hickson began his Vale Tudo career against Rei Zulu, as a WW (aprox. 175 lbs).
Then he slowly bulked up and began a MW in Japan:

Hickson - david-levicki-vs-rickson_59129d0e_m.jpg

Hoyce was taller than Hickson, but Hickson had a bigger frame, right.
Hence, the weight difference was around 9 lbs.


Now, if ya consider the size difference @ UFC 1:

IS-THIS-LEGAL-Program-Guide-pg.4.jpg


IS-THIS-LEGAL-Program-Guide-pg.5.jpg

It is pretty obvious that Hoyce or Hickson as a 'marketing tool' for GJJ would have made no difference, for the very simple reason that they would have both been dwarfed by most of the competitors (see their height/weight).

Hence, ask yourself: why did Horion choose Hoyce and not Hickson?

> Coz he couldnt control Hickson, Hoyce was a complete rookie.
He had never even participated in BJJ tournaments b4, as Helson later explained.
It was a matter of influence inside the family.

2/ When Hickson went to Vale Tudo Japan, he didnt use the Gi, and GJJ was not that dominant in Japan.
When George Gracie was fightin´in North or South Brazil, in the 1930s-40s-50s... he never used the Gi.
Pitanguy used it coz he was a rookie, Hoyce kept usin´it coz it was part of his grapplin´, till he understood that it became a 2-edged sword.

3/ I repeat: Tadeu was supposed, jus´like ALL the Luta Livre fighters @ the 1st BJJ vs Luta Livre Challenge, to be literally slaughtered.
The size difference between Tadeu and Pitanguy is similar to the one between Ken and Hoyce. Heck, I would even say that Ken had a bigger size advantage, and his strength was even more enhanced coz of the juice (see Oleg´s statement about his fight vs Ken: Ken was too strong to roll with, because of the juice).
Tadeu was supposed to have his guard passed left & right, jus´like the other Luta Livre dudes.
Important: Tadeu didnt win the Pitanguy fight in the guard. He dictated where the fight took place and mauled him on the feet.


Ken could/should have dictated where the fight was takin´place, but he chose to operate within a Pancrase-like Fight Configuration, which was an anomaly in a full NHB Fight Configuration.
 

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[book: Is this legal?:
ART DAVIE: " As dismissive as the Gracies were of all other fighting styles, I knew that Rorion took Shamrock very seriously, and felt that he could be his brother’s toughest opponent. He didn’t tell me much about Royce’s week of training in their Executive Tower Inn hotel suite, but Rorion did say that Rickson had special drills that he was putting Royce through, so as to be ready for Shamrock"]
 
Some of the additional advantages of wearing a gi in MMA.

1) It reduces damage and pain when hit especially with bare nuckle. Karate guys will confirm this.

2) Royce used his own lapel to secure choke hold on Sakuraba. There're many variations utilizing own gi to choke opponent. Ask Leo Vieira.

3) hide poorly built upper body

4) give yourself dignified look by resembling samurai going at war

5) Avoid direct skin contact with stinky ugly unhygienic motherfuckers - likes of peewee Herman
 
Some of the additional advantages of wearing a gi in MMA.

1) It reduces damage and pain when hit especially with bare nuckle. Karate guys will confirm this.

2) Royce used his own lapel to secure choke hold on Sakuraba. There're many variations utilizing own gi to choke opponent. Ask Leo Vieira.

3) hide poorly built upper body

4) give yourself dignified look by resembling samurai going at war

5) Avoid direct skin contact with stinky ugly unhygienic motherfuckers - likes of peewee Herman


krazy smell.gif
 
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