Darce Choke Mechanics and Arms problem.

Colleric

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I heard it so many times that if you have short arms just give up on Darce Choke and similiar chokes so i would like to ask if you have short arms should you go for darce or brabo or something like that?

EDIT: There's a nice explanation of Darce here
https://bjj-world.com/mechanics-of-the-darce-choke/
 
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I heard it so many times that if you have short arms just give up on Darce Choke and similiar chokes so i would like to ask if you have short arms should you go for darce or brabo or something like that?
I'm 5'10 and have shorter than average arms. I've been hitting D'arces on people for years. Both at the gym and in competition. It's just a matter of driving the bottom arm through as deep as possible and even pulling it through with the top arm.
 
Look up The Japanese necktie... so many darce vaders running around these days but no one's using the necktie... which goes hand in hand with the darce.
 
Look up The Japanese necktie... so many darce vaders running around these days but no one's using the necktie... which goes hand in hand with the darce.

This to me is the most logical solution. I have not had a chance to play with the Japanese neck tie or the Peruvian neck tie as much as I have wanted to since I have been out of training for a little bit. But as a guy with short arms I think the next logical step once gable griping around the neck is attacking a neck tie instead of trying to force my stubbby arms around the neck and arm of my opponent lol.
 
If you have short limbs for a sub, you have to adjust yourself then. Similar to a triangle, get off more to an angle if you can't lock it at the current position.
 
Look up The Japanese necktie... so many darce vaders running around these days but no one's using the necktie... which goes hand in hand with the darce.

I have long arms, and I still love the Japanese necktie. It's higher percentage than my darce right now, given the quality of defense out there.
 
There is no rule that says you have to lock your hand in the crook of your elbow.

Gripping your forearm or wrist (also known as the 'short darce') can work as well or better; takes less slack and lets you use more of your elbow to push his head in.

There's also the rapeatine, where you grip the throat with the hand of your overhooking arm, using the other to reenforce the structure whichever way is convenient; either shooting it in deep to grip his tricep, grip your elbow/tricep, grip your wrist, grip the chinstrap, or just using the elbow/forearm alone to push his head in.

Another thing darce masters often use to get the overhook in deep(er) in half guard is to punch it strait down further down the body, basically armbaring the guys underhook, letting you then go up shoulder deep easily.
 
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I heard it so many times that if you have short arms just give up on Darce Choke and similiar chokes so i would like to ask if you have short arms should you go for darce or brabo or something like that?

I'm 5'5". Things like the D'arce choke always seemed like an impossibility for me. Paul Bradley did a seminar at the MMA gym I go to (it was right after he knocked out Honeycut in Belator) a while back. He said something that really surprised me. "I have very short arms, which makes my D'arce choke very very tight. It's one of my favorite chokes."

I did a double take because that's the opposite of what you would normally hear. He showed how you really just need to drag the opponent forward a little more, and take a slightly different angle. It's now one of my favorite chokes. Marcello shows something similar on the MGinAction site as well. It might be worth looking up. There are still limits for me of course. If I'm rolling with a real big guy, I'm not going to even try it, but an average sized adult or smaller? I went from not being able to hit it, to actively hunting for it as much as possible.
 
The tradeoff between short and long arms is that with long arms it's easier to lock up the sub but harder to finish. With short arms getting there will be tougher, but once you have it locked the finish will be much easier. Keep in mind that you can still Darce people the old fashioned way using the Gable grip rather than going all the way to the arm triangle, and as mentioned the Japanese necktie is there too. On the anaconda, the main thing is to get good at using your top side leg to collapse the arm and also to be ready to switch to a guillotine if uke is dropping that arm hard to avoid the arm triangle.
 
I heard it so many times that if you have short arms just give up on Darce Choke and similiar chokes so i would like to ask if you have short arms should you go for darce or brabo or something like that?
Don't give up on it. A huge darce problem people have it over penetration on their choking arm which causes more of a crank.

You only want to be deep enough to make a thumbs up along the back of their neck.

Some of the best darce guys I train with have shorter arms.

Jeff Glover is one of the best darce guys of all time and he's a featherweight (and not a tall and lanky one either). Glover has very average arm length.
 
Look up The Japanese necktie... so many darce vaders running around these days but no one's using the necktie... which goes hand in hand with the darce.
Part of this I think is because if you can make a gable grip, you can probably darce almost just as easy, and the darce just has way more potential setups/entries, and angles to finish from.

The darce is the kimura of the choke world, and as awesome as the Japanese necktie is, it just doesn't have quite the same versatility.
 
Part of this I think is because if you can make a gable grip, you can probably darce almost just as easy, and the darce just has way more potential setups/entries, and angles to finish from.

The darce is the kimura of the choke world, and as awesome as the Japanese necktie is, it just doesn't have quite the same versatility.

I use the necktie as a side by side technique to the d'arce, not a replacement. Not sure what's different for me technically, but you're not the first to explain the d'arce to me like that(if you have gable grip you can just as easily get the d'arce.) Which is odd because for me in order to secure a tight d'arce I need to have my arm in much deeper than "gable grip" depth.

I use the gable grip as a gauge. If I can get my arm deeper I go for the d'arce, if I can only get it in deep enough to lock the gable grip I go for the necktie.
 
I use the necktie as a side by side technique to the d'arce, not a replacement. Not sure what's different for me technically, but you're not the first to explain the d'arce to me like that(if you have gable grip you can just as easily get the d'arce.) Which is odd because for me in order to secure a tight d'arce I need to have my arm in much deeper than "gable grip" depth.

I use the gable grip as a gauge. If I can get my arm deeper I go for the d'arce, if I can only get it in deep enough to lock the gable grip I go for the necktie.
I see your point.

My whole thing about arm depth is that as someone who has been all in on the darce since 2007 I would say that most people overshoot on it and try to go deeper than they need to. If your choking arm is any deeper than it takes to make a 'thumbs up' and have your thumb touch along the back of their neck, then you have overshot it. Can you still get the tap? Can you still get the choke? Of course. Yes. But for the cleanest blood choke, you want to follow that 'rule of thumb' most of the time.

Some people get the gable grip and feel that they have to go deeper for the darce because of the person's trapped head. So just because you can get your palms together doesn't always mean you can get your biceps down to your hand....at least not without breaking their posture more. So that may be an issue too.

I think both techniques are great. But I am firmly in the camp that even a couple of famous darce chokers overshoot it themselves.

Japanese necktie is awesome though. It's a great technique.
 
If your choking arm is any deeper than it takes to make a 'thumbs up' and have your thumb touch along the back of their neck, then you have overshot it.

Exactly.
I got relatively long arms for my height, 5'10" with a 74" reach, and my thumb along the back of the neck is what I use to make sure I'm in the perfect spot.
 
Exhale when you try to reach for the other arm you idiot nu male soy boys replying with junk . <Moves>
 
I see your point.

My whole thing about arm depth is that as someone who has been all in on the darce since 2007 I would say that most people overshoot on it and try to go deeper than they need to. If your choking arm is any deeper than it takes to make a 'thumbs up' and have your thumb touch along the back of their neck, then you have overshot it. Can you still get the tap? Can you still get the choke? Of course. Yes. But for the cleanest blood choke, you want to follow that 'rule of thumb' most of the time.

Some people get the gable grip and feel that they have to go deeper for the darce because of the person's trapped head. So just because you can get your palms together doesn't always mean you can get your biceps down to your hand....at least not without breaking their posture more. So that may be an issue too.

I think both techniques are great. But I am firmly in the camp that even a couple of famous darce chokers overshoot it themselves.

Japanese necktie is awesome though. It's a great technique.

Here's my problem with rule of thumb. Maybe it's a dumb one but it's real for me. I can't hold on to my bicep unless I'm much deeper than thumb on back of neck. Maybe I have short fingers or something but if I'm doing nogi and I try to grab my arm at that depth, it's like holding onto a greased eel with a snotty hand. It's just not viable without getting my fingers at least partially over my triceps. Maybe I'm missing a detail or secret here but I struggle with darces a lot.
 
Here's my problem with rule of thumb. Maybe it's a dumb one but it's real for me. I can't hold on to my bicep unless I'm much deeper than thumb on back of neck. Maybe I have short fingers or something but if I'm doing nogi and I try to grab my arm at that depth, it's like holding onto a greased eel with a snotty hand. It's just not viable without getting my fingers at least partially over my triceps. Maybe I'm missing a detail or secret here but I struggle with darces a lot.

Not sure if this will solve your problem, but it's worth a try. Before you grab your bicep, get a gable grip and use your non-choking forearm on the crown of his head to push his chin towards his chest. Once you've broken his neck posture, then try to grab your bicep.
 
Here's my problem with rule of thumb. Maybe it's a dumb one but it's real for me. I can't hold on to my bicep unless I'm much deeper than thumb on back of neck. Maybe I have short fingers or something but if I'm doing nogi and I try to grab my arm at that depth, it's like holding onto a greased eel with a snotty hand. It's just not viable without getting my fingers at least partially over my triceps. Maybe I'm missing a detail or secret here but I struggle with darces a lot.
Hmm. Fair enough.

Im gonna post some videos that I think might help you.
 
Not sure if this will solve your problem, but it's worth a try. Before you grab your bicep, get a gable grip and use your non-choking forearm on the crown of his head to push his chin towards his chest. Once you've broken his neck posture, then try to grab your bicep.
It's also great to use your leg to break their posture. You can do this from multiple entries.

If you're on top shooting your right arm through, you can use your left leg to post behind their head and break their posture. Rafa Mendes does this.

Or if you like the slide in entry, you can throw your left leg over the back of their head as you slide into your right hip and punch the right arm through so they can't posture up.
 
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