Dan Kelly's trips and throw attempts

JudoYourDayUp

JudoYourDayUp

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During the Kelly vs Evans fight tonight, I think Annik made a comment like "Dan Kelly officially 0/6 on takedowns tonight" after Kelly went for one of the many trips and throws that didn't actually get Rashad down, but brought him to his knees and made him defend.

Just got me thinking about how that stat can mean a lot of different things in different fights. Like in this fight, the types of takedowns Kelly was using aren't so energy intensive. It makes Evans use energy to defend the trip and then pop back to his feet. All the while Kelly is standing upright the whole time and looking dominant.

On the other hand, you could have a fight where 0/6 on takedowns means one guy keeps diving for doubles and getting sprawled on. He's using more energy and it looks bad that he keeps having to pick himself back up after each failed takedown.

Or you could have a guy who shot 6 takedowns, didn't get any of them, but was able to clinch and push his opponent to the fence, where they both get some shots in before his opponent escapes.

I thought I'd have some sort of question about how to represent/score takedown attempts more precisely in MMA, but I don't know if it's even worth it. Maybe this all sort of figures out into aggression and octagon control.

Pointless post I know...but those were some sweet trips and footsweeps eh?
 
Garbage fight. Rashad should have gotten the decision.
 
RJ Green said:
for what?
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He landed more significant strikes than Kelley. Most of Kelley's sloppy punches that "landed" only grazed Rashad. Those trips were weak. The judges are morons.
 
tits said:
Garbage fight. Rashad should have gotten the decision.
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No. Moving your hands around without throwing punches isn't a scoring criteria, neither are the number of punches landed.
 
I think most of his "attempts" were just to keep Rashad guessing. The little ko sotos were getting him off balance and the bigger throws, I don't think he committed to - especially since he only had a grip on one arm.

They were cool to watch. It also made me chuckle when Kelly went full judo mode and turned out of Rashad's takedowns.
 
Pretty fun fight. Kelly is gritty, and he had some very good hits. His constant fishing for clinch tds was cool. Relatively clear 29-28 Kelly. He took the first two rounds.
 
Rjay said:
No. Moving your hands around without throwing punches isn't a scoring criteria, neither are the number of punches landed.
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Did you happen to notice how bloody and beaten up Kelly looked? Rashad did way more damage and didn't look hurt at all.
 
tits said:
Did you happen to notice how bloody and beaten up Kelly looked? Rashad did way more damage and didn't look hurt at all.
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Thats called winning a Stockton decision, not an actual decision. Body language at the end said it all, they both knew who was getting the win.
 
Rjay said:
Thats called winning a Stockton decision, not an actual decision. Body language at the end said it all, they both knew who was getting the win.
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I don't know, Rashad looked like he knew he won. Those two judges should be shot.
 
JudoYourDayUp said:
During the Kelly vs Evans fight tonight, I think Annik made a comment like "Dan Kelly officially 0/6 on takedowns tonight" after Kelly went for one of the many trips and throws that didn't actually get Rashad down, but brought him to his knees and made him defend.

Just got me thinking about how that stat can mean a lot of different things in different fights. Like in this fight, the types of takedowns Kelly was using aren't so energy intensive. It makes Evans use energy to defend the trip and then pop back to his feet. All the while Kelly is standing upright the whole time and looking dominant.

On the other hand, you could have a fight where 0/6 on takedowns means one guy keeps diving for doubles and getting sprawled on. He's using more energy and it looks bad that he keeps having to pick himself back up after each failed takedown.

Or you could have a guy who shot 6 takedowns, didn't get any of them, but was able to clinch and push his opponent to the fence, where they both get some shots in before his opponent escapes.

I thought I'd have some sort of question about how to represent/score takedown attempts more precisely in MMA, but I don't know if it's even worth it. Maybe this all sort of figures out into aggression and octagon control.

Pointless post I know...but those were some sweet trips and footsweeps eh?
Click to expand...

In some jacket styles like Shuai Jiao, you get points for just getting them to touch knee to ground, or you totally lose when happens like in Mongolian Boke, and I think Kurash.

And what background does this Dan Kelly have?
 
JudoYourDayUp said:
During the Kelly vs Evans fight tonight, I think Annik made a comment like "Dan Kelly officially 0/6 on takedowns tonight" after Kelly went for one of the many trips and throws that didn't actually get Rashad down, but brought him to his knees and made him defend.

Just got me thinking about how that stat can mean a lot of different things in different fights. Like in this fight, the types of takedowns Kelly was using aren't so energy intensive. It makes Evans use energy to defend the trip and then pop back to his feet. All the while Kelly is standing upright the whole time and looking dominant.

On the other hand, you could have a fight where 0/6 on takedowns means one guy keeps diving for doubles and getting sprawled on. He's using more energy and it looks bad that he keeps having to pick himself back up after each failed takedown.

Or you could have a guy who shot 6 takedowns, didn't get any of them, but was able to clinch and push his opponent to the fence, where they both get some shots in before his opponent escapes.

I thought I'd have some sort of question about how to represent/score takedown attempts more precisely in MMA, but I don't know if it's even worth it. Maybe this all sort of figures out into aggression and octagon control.

Pointless post I know...but those were some sweet trips and footsweeps eh?
Click to expand...

Frank Shamrock has a quote about fighting were he says something along that lines that at the higher levels positions don't matter so much, what matters is how much damage you're doing, how much you're taking, and how much energy you're expending. The kind of Judo game Kelly was using is in my opinion (biased, because it's a lot like my MMA grappling game) pretty much perfect for MMA. He wasn't getting touched up in the clinch and he was interrupting Evans's offense, he was creating opportunities to hit Evans when he was off balance, and he wasn't expending a lot of energy with anything he went for. He shouldn't have had TDs scored because he didn't get them, but that doesn't mean that what he was doing wasn't effective. If I go for a footsweep and fail but I force you off balance, get a shot or two in, don't get hit myself, and make you use energy to scramble to stay on your feet...I'll take that all night. That's smart fighting.
 
Never mind he could not complete his takedowns.
At least it forced his opponent to defend and therefore he cannot get punched back.
 
tits said:
Garbage fight. Rashad should have gotten the decision.
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You thought Rashad won that? I thought it was a fairly clear 29-28 Kelly. I know all 3 Sherdog play by play guys had 29-28 Kelly and so did MMAJunkie. I haven't checked any others though. Rashad really couldn't get anything going - again.
 
Oblivian said:
You thought Rashad won that? I thought it was a fairly clear 29-28 Kelly. I know all 3 Sherdog play by play guys had 29-28 Kelly and so did MMAJunkie. I haven't checked any others though. Rashad really couldn't get anything going - again.
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He smashed Kelly's face up. That's more than anything Kelly did.
 
latest


dude sherdog, fight metric, and the judges all disagree with you
 
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