Cus did not believe Tyson could beat Foreman

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by spacetime, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. spacetime

    spacetime Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    655
    Cus was convinced a fighter of Tysons style (including Tyson) could never beat Foreman. This despite the fact that Foreman went the distance against average joes like Peralta, who of course fought stylistically different but was in no shape or form the fighter Tyson was.

    Here's the background:

    http://coxscorner.tripod.com/foreman_tyson_fl.html

    "Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road."
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  2. spacetime

    spacetime Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    655
    What do you guys think? Would Foreman have a field day? Is Frazier and Tyson all that similar??? Tyson had a way more complete offense compared to Smokin Joe, who primarily relied on that great left hook of his. Tyson could punch equally well from either side, and was quicker.

    I am not so sure it's a foregone conclusion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  3. ssx

    ssx Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,601
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Hawaii
    I’ve always thought peak Tyson would beat peak Foreman. Tyson had far more offensive weapons than Frazier ever had. His hand and foot speed would have been a big problem for Foreman. Sure George could catch Tyson coming in with one of his big haymakers and beat him, but I actually think Foreman was too slow, got himself off balance and in bad positions, and left himself vulnerable on defense far too much, Tyson would have teed off on Foreman after a while and stopped him.
     
  4. XThe GreatestX

    XThe GreatestX Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7,292
    Likes Received:
    7,527
    Location:
    Oakland
    Peak foreman? Probably fucks up tyson

    foreman had some vicious uppercuts and Tyson was always relatively susceptible to that punch.

    Would be a war tho
     
    Boxer and Strychnine like this.
  5. spacetime

    spacetime Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    655
    Yeah I know. It just rubbs me the wrong way to bring up Frazier-Foreman. I would bet everything on Tyson destroying Joe Frazier just like he did to his son Marvin. So the fact that Foreman did it means nothing to me
     
  6. spacetime

    spacetime Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    655
    It's endlessly frustrating to not have any data on how Rooney Tyson did against elite guys like Lewis and Holyfield. They did spar after all and we got zero footage.. So that makes it incredibly hard to know how a peak Tyson faces adversity, because he never did.
     
  7. XThe GreatestX

    XThe GreatestX Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7,292
    Likes Received:
    7,527
    Location:
    Oakland
    I think Tyson would beat Frazier as well.

    But tbh i see the fight between foreman and tyson being a war with both taking brutal punishment until foreman gets tyson with an uppercut late for a stoppage.
     
  8. spacetime

    spacetime Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    655
    I'm thinking if Tyson can be in and out of there quickly and accumulate damage to a not so great defensive fighter, he might stand a chance. Again, Peralta went the distance... And he did well with the inside fighting.
     
  9. spacetime

    spacetime Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    655
    For what it's worth, I read somewhere that comeback Foreman did not believe he would beat Tyson, he just wanted the fight.

    By "not believe" I mean of course he was realistic that Tyson winning was the most likely outcome.
     
  10. Strychnine

    Strychnine Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    21,953
    Likes Received:
    19,649
    Location:
    Georgia, USA
    I would've loved to have seen Tyson vs. comeback Foreman. Tyson ducking and dodging, slipping the nuclear grenades that are Foreman's jabs, trying to get in close to rip to the body!

    Would've been amazing.
     
    borntoloseNOT likes this.
  11. spacetime

    spacetime Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    655
    Meh, comeback Foremans technique went down the drainer. I want them both at their peak if I could pick
     
    Strychnine likes this.
  12. Married...With Boxing

    Married...With Boxing White Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2018
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    68
    I think Cus had a point about styles if it was peak vs peak. But I'm with Foreman in that as an old fighter, his chances were poor. Maybe one in ten, two in ten. Yeah, it's still a tough style for Tyson with a guy that carries that strength, but his speed advantage would be horrendous for Foreman. Holyfield landing his combos on Foreman was bad. The power that Tyson had? Tyson putting them together on a portly, more pace-oriented George? The punishment he'd have to take, and then there's me thinking Tyson's chin is way undersold, and how much of a puncher's chance George really had...I don't like it. If I'm with George, I don't like it at all.
     
  13. borntoloseNOT

    borntoloseNOT Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,854
    Likes Received:
    620
    Tyson in his PRIME (in all caps) was an absolute freak, there was never a HWT like him, people only underestimate him because his downside and losses when he fought in no way like his PRIME self.
     
  14. RawHawg

    RawHawg Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    5,649
    Likes Received:
    4,818
    If the ref had allowed it, which they often did, I could see Foreman heavily employing his oft used tactic of doing a hard double handed shove to the upper body, continually shoving Mike hard and away from him, and into punching range. I could see this frustrating Mike.

    When Foreman fought Dwight Qawi, who while smaller, fought in some ways rather similar to Tyson, Foreman had big problems early on and Qawi was landing clean shots almost at will. Dwight was out of shape for that heavyweight fight and eventually gassed, but if not for that I could have seen him winning that fight by decision or maybe even stopping George had he been in better condition. For anyone who hasn't seen this fight in George's comeback, I would highly recommend it and it is very interesting to see in relation to how George and Tyson may have played out. This fight was also noteworthy because it was the lightest George weighed in his whole comeback, 235

     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
    Strychnine, Jhonni5 and spacetime like this.
  15. XThe GreatestX

    XThe GreatestX Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7,292
    Likes Received:
    7,527
    Location:
    Oakland
    How about losing to the biggest underdog in the history of sports in the middle of his prime?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  16. Hagler

    Hagler Man of wealth and taste

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    15,857
    Likes Received:
    3,012
    Location:
    The shed
    Both have the tools to get to the other. This would have been fun while it lasted, and it would have lasted quite some time given these guys chins. The hell if I know who's the last one standing.
     
  17. spacetime

    spacetime Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    655
    Happens to everyone. Ali lost to fucking Leo Spinks. Lewis to Mcall and Rahman.
     
  18. XThe GreatestX

    XThe GreatestX Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    7,292
    Likes Received:
    7,527
    Location:
    Oakland
    Lewis yeah. McCall was a strange anomaly and Rahman was him being an idiot.

    Ali was in early stages of Parkinsons so I don't really count that one.
     
    MMACroatia likes this.
  19. djacobox372

    djacobox372 Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    18,713
    Likes Received:
    2,563
    Old George would just be too slow (see morrison fight)... but young George beats tyson.
     
    nac386 likes this.
  20. nac386

    nac386 Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2014
    Messages:
    15,999
    Likes Received:
    20,954
    I think Mike Tyson would have done awful damage to comeback George Foreman. The corner would have to stop that one.

    Young Foreman would have beat Tyson, I think.
     

Share This Page