Culture shock going from BJJ to Judo

[SAMURAI SPIRIT]

So I have been doing Judo at a local club for about 3 months now. It is a casually run place with one class a week for the time being until you become "advanced" (more than 3 months of training.) I must say that coming from a BJJ background it is a bit of a culture shock.

Firstly, three months into it and I have not sparred ONCE! No all out rolling from day one which I expected. Instead we are constantly doing break falls. The proficiency in breakfalls that would satisfy my BJJ school is much lower than what is expected here. While I understand that need to master breakfalls before doing all out sparring, the lack of sparring has left me feeling a bit "under utilized." The pleasure / mental satisfaction factor that you get from BJJ rolling is not here anymore.

So now I am wondering whether to only work Judo to the level where it will give me some stand up confidence to engage BJJ fighters or whether to continue it all the way as my second discipline. Question is:

Is Judo as laid back all the way to black belt level? Or when exactly does it start getting competitive? Thanks.

 

[SBC]

No, it is not as laid back. But it also depends on the instructor. I picked up Judo to supplement my training as well, and don't let it fool you, Judo is tough. Although my instructor started us a lot quicker compared to your instructor, I can see why he is taking it slow with you. It is of high importance that you learn to fall correctly. The pros make it look easy but taking a fall can be scary and it you don't know what your doing it isn't nearly as gentle as world level judokas make it look. Judo is much more dangerous than BJJ. I was listening to a podcast with Chris Round, a former US Olympian who has taken up BJJ, and he summed it up perfectly, "In BJJ you really don't see people getting seriously injured in casual rolling but in Judo, it is common that someone completely new to Judo sees a few throws on Youtube decides to try it in randori and the next thing you know your knee is blown out". I think your instructor is taking it too slow personally, but there is a reason why they want you to obsess over something that seems so silly.

I'm currently injured so I haven't been able to compete but my instructor always wanted us to compete and mix it up with the blackbelts and those more experienced.
How often do those who are more experienced practice?

 

[SAMURAI SPIRIT]

How often do those who are more experienced practice?

More experienced ones have 2 sessions a week. One is open mat practice and the other is a formal class. The serious ones also train at other places besides this one who these two sessions are not the only training they are getting (my feeling.)

 

[CFGroup]

The BJJ is where broken Judoka go to pasture!

Don't let the Ukemi training fool you, depending on the school you are just learning how to strap on your parachute.

Think about it full resistance in two dimensions where gravity and vertical force are little vs full resistance in three dimensions where vertical force and gravity add acceleration to impact with an immobile surface.

Depending on the school you need to learn how to protect yourself from the equivalent of falling of a first story floor on your back and side while rotating airborne!

The rabbit hole is deep!

 

[SummerStriker]

Yup. I roll full power and get slammed from guard against mma fighters in BJJ, men nearly double my strength, and I’m usually not even sore.

I can’t even train Judo.

 

[ArtemV]

I sparred in tachi waza and newaza in my first session. Try and find another Judo club, some are about learning the art and self defense etc, others are about learning the art and for competition (mine) etc.

The weirdest thing I find about a Judo club, is that how weak some newaza games are. Some guys at my club don't know how to open a guard other than digging the elbows in (which does work; albeit, against lower leveled guys).

 

[ArtemV]

Yup. I roll full power and get slammed from guard against mma fighters in BJJ, men nearly double my strength, and I’m usually not even sore.

I can’t even train Judo.

Some mma guys at my gym confuse me.. they come to the main bjj sparring class and roll with gloves and don't have much gi fundamentals, they don't usually come to the main technique classes and then enter competitions and get thrashed, lol. But I don't understand the use of gloves, they often become entangled even more in a gi and is really.. quite useless for mma imo .

 

[SummerStriker]

Some mma guys at my gym confuse me.. they come to the main bjj sparring class and roll with gloves and don't have much gi fundamentals, they don't usually come to the main technique classes and then enter competitions and get thrashed, lol. But I don't understand the use of gloves, they often become entangled even more in a gi and is really.. quite useless for mma imo .

I think some people get burned out learning shit and just want to bang. Just let them bang, bro.

 

[ArtemV]

I think some people get burned out learning shit and just want to bang. Just let them bang, bro.

True, but it is always kind of funny to see them annoyed at why they lost.. 'but I lost by one sweep..' 'I couldn't pass his guard..' 'he was too strong' lmao

 

[j123]

I think some people get burned out learning shit and just want to bang. Just let them bang, bro.

 

[shunyata]

It sounds like the gym your at is a very new crop.

For a newbie class it can be normal to spend a month or more on falling.

Afterall, if all of you suck at falling there will be ALOT of injuries really fast once you start all out rondori.

If that bothers you, get into a more established judo club.

But if your falls are getting better as you've acknowledged, then maybe you should hang out and keep drilling falls longer before you go anywhere else.


Generally at a more established club with a mix of experienced beginners and more advanced students you'll see a brand new students separated from the class to work on falls while the rest of the class is drilling uchikomi or something.

 

[Daniel Fox]

So I have been doing Judo at a local club for about 3 months now. It is a casually run place with one class a week for the time being until you become "advanced" (more than 3 months of training.) I must say that coming from a BJJ background it is a bit of a culture shock.

Firstly, three months into it and I have not sparred ONCE! No all out rolling from day one which I expected. Instead we are constantly doing break falls. The proficiency in breakfalls that would satisfy my BJJ school is much lower than what is expected here. While I understand that need to master breakfalls before doing all out sparring, the lack of sparring has left me feeling a bit "under utilized." The pleasure / mental satisfaction factor that you get from BJJ rolling is not here anymore.

So now I am wondering whether to only work Judo to the level where it will give me some stand up confidence to engage BJJ fighters or whether to continue it all the way as my second discipline. Question is:

Is Judo as laid back all the way to black belt level? Or when exactly does it start getting competitive? Thanks.

Not doing Randori after training for a month is unusual. Regarding culture shock, I find the culture of BJJ to be much stranger than the culture of Judo. The BJJ schools that I have trained were a mix between a high school and a cult. If you are not in the "in crowd" you would pretty much get ignored. Most Judo clubs are pretty competitive because they train for Judo competitions. It sounds like you are going to the wrong club.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

They're trying to minimise injuries and keep everyone coming back.

A couple of things:
1) New players are going to destroy each other's joints, especially knees, if they go straight into randori.
2) Learning to fall is paramount, especially if other new players are going to be throwing you at all kinds of weird angles.

 

[Thrawn33]

Ukemi is important.

At my first club it was usually one to two weeks before you randori'd depending on how well the Godan coach and the brown belts felt you were picking it up. Keep in mind though that club was 6 days a week. (Newbies usually went 4 days a week, but there were no restrictions)

Based on the OT you're saying one day of practice a week. If you went by my old clubs standards it'd be almost two months before you went live.

Club dynamics play a big part in this too, lots of black and brown belts mean you randori sooner because the darker belts can be trusted not to kill you. (both clubs I trained at kept new people separate until they could be trusted not to die) Lots of white and Citrus belts mean ukemi must be good because there's going to be a lot of sloppy throws.

 

[CFGroup]

Ukemi is important.

At my first club it was usually one to two weeks before you randori'd depending on how well the Godan coach and the brown belts felt you were picking it up. Keep in mind though that club was 6 days a week. (Newbies usually went 4 days a week, but there were no restrictions)

Based on the OT you're saying one day of practice a week. If you went by my old clubs standards it'd be almost two months before you went live.

Club dynamics play a big part in this too, lots of black and brown belts mean you randori sooner because the darker belts can be trusted not to kill you. (both clubs I trained at kept new people separate until they could be trusted not to die) Lots of white and Citrus belts mean ukemi must be good because there's going to be a lot of sloppy throws.

The basic theory is three day a week to maintain present skill, four to five to solidly advance and six or more to prep for comps or week long national and international training camps.
Hard cores for Shodan and higher would train 11 sometimes 14 days in a row. One of the best Boston area tricks before moving to San Diego was to train up in Somerville and than zip out to Jimmy Pedro's for drop in class. You can almost make it a mini training camp with three or more hrs of training a day for those of you in the area.

 

[Foppa21]

Some mma guys at my gym confuse me.. they come to the main bjj sparring class and roll with gloves and don't have much gi fundamentals, they don't usually come to the main technique classes and then enter competitions and get thrashed, lol. But I don't understand the use of gloves, they often become entangled even more in a gi and is really.. quite useless for mma imo .

Do they care that they get thrashed in those competitions? For some it's a means to an end. They just want to get that mat time.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

The basic theory is three day a week to maintain present skill, four to five to solidly advance and six or more to prep for comps or week long national and international training camps.
Hard cores for Shodan and higher would train 11 sometimes 14 days in a row. One of the best Boston area tricks before moving to San Diego was to train up in Somerville and than zip out to Jimmy Pedro's for drop in class. You can almost make it a mini training camp with three or more hrs of training a day for those of you in the area.

That's Dai Sensei in the video? I was very lucky to spend a few sessions at his current club. He's breeding absolute monsters there.

 

[ArtemV]

Do they care that they get thrashed in those competitions? For some it's a means to an end. They just want to get that mat time.

It has been the same process from the start of 2017 (when my club got a legit bjj coach to teach bjj classes, rather than paying a guy from another club at least double the usual price.), they think that just BJJ sparring classes is enough. Some guys at my club are really good judoka and wrestlers, even sambists too; they now how to play their game, but a primarily mma game in bjj doesn't usually work for them.

 

[lechien]

I lost a few customers who got thrown and got injured by judo bb on their first couple of weeks.

Not fun at all.

 

[Rider1]

You need to do a lot of break falls trust me.

You wont regret that.

Keep doing your breakfalls or it will get painful later