Cuban Boxing Fundamentals

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by AndyMaBobs, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I can't speak on the context of what they're doing there, or for every U.S. Gym, but I've never seen it. I don't even do this, because our Gym is tiny and has no room. I think this was just used for the large session with the international guests. My gym only looks like this when I have a shitload of people all doing drills. However, sparring in the U.S. is definitely different than what they think of as "sparring"...I realized that after two of my guys sparred the #3 and #1 Amateurs in the World and they told the trainer they didn't want to come back to our Gym because they felt it was "too intense." I thought that odd because they're far more qualified than my guys were. But even Conlan agreed:

     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Yes, Same with Calvin Brock's Father...learned everything by VHS. But he made no bones about it and didn't advertise otherwise. In other words he never lied and wasn't a fraud, neither did Enzo. So I have a certain amount of respect for the brains of those men. Know what else? They each trained more than one World Champion. So they were innovative and onto something, if they would have done the apprenticeship as I did, and gotten the background and pedigree, they would have become legends. Only because of the prestige that brings.

    But this wasn't always the case. At one point the U.S. absolutely had wizard-like trainers. Guys like Whitey Ensault (who built Willie Pastrano and Ralph Dupas), Tony Canzoneri's trainer (whose name escapes me), Blackburn...whose methods were so good even Joe Lous' sparring partners got much much better as fighters just being around it. Harry Wiley Sr., Ray Robinson's trainer. Who Muhammad Ali was so fond of (Ali hired him when he fought Jimmy Young, because Angelo Dundee was loyal to Young and cornered him against Ali...with Wiley Ali won) that he straight up TOLD Angelo Dundee that Wiley would be part of their team. Freddie Brown, who is the reason Roberto Duran learned how to jab and throw straight punches. So what happened? Long story short many of these wizards died without teaching their magic. AND, at the same time it became easier to become a trainer. A perfect storm of a Sport becoming vulnerable to being filled with bullshit, and having guys make their names and money off of athletic kids with mediocre skill getting hit in the head.
     
  3. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    You are correct, Enzo had no experience.....
     
  4. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    The World is full of instances where rudimentary amateurs did something great in a field of work or study...Boxing is no exception.
     
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  5. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    Due to my medical problems as a kid, I never took part in P.E. class and I went to the pool across the road from my school to swim to keep myself active. Last week I asked my friend who was having a lot of trouble with the tile exercise what actually happened in P.E. class and he said they did no physical conditioning at all, it was all warm up stretches and playing football/tennis etc. but no actual important exercises for building a healthier body.

    So when they build them into bigger movements, have you got any examples of drills for them?
     
  6. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    Well say for example you go to the Repton boxing gym in London, you learn the Repton style. If you go to the Cuban Boxing Acadmey in North London, you learn the Cuban style. The US is the same, Johnny Tocco's doesn't teach the same as the Mongoose Gym for example. In Cuba it seems you just learn the cuban style regardless of what school you go to.
     
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  7. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    As far as I'm aware, Papa Calzaghe did have boxing experience. He started at a similar time to his son, and eventually became the assistant instructor. I'm not sure of all the details but as far as I'm aware he did have experience, it's just his focus went straight into learning the craft and teaching rather than being a fighter himself.
     
  8. thugpoet

    thugpoet Purple Belt

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    Generally speaking the USA is a melting pot. Back in the day we had regional styles. With the Internet and travel making the world closer thats kinda gone away.
     
  9. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    In fairness, it's not a "style." Style is what you do with what you know. Rigondeaux and Dorticos come from the same system, and they fight different from each other. Luis Ortiz doesn't fight like Erislandy Lara. Yordenis Ugas doesn't fight like Gamboa. But what you do have there is a uniform system of fundamentals. In other words, they all receive the same tool box.

    What you have in the U.S. is people arguing that things that kind of resemble wrenches ARE wrenches and should be in everyone's tool box. To the degree where our medal count for males has exponentially decreased. Females are doing fine. At one point our women's team had 5 World Champions and one two-time Gold Medalist
     
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  10. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    Yeah, it's hard to properly explain what I mean but I do agree with you.

    Out of interest would you say that amateur or professional is a better bench mark for what country has the best boxing? I get they're not entirely the same sport, but I am curious
     
  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Definitely amateur, pro boxing is a hustle where you never know of what you're seeing is what you're seeing
     
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  12. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

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    absolutely cracked me up.
     
  13. jtwarwagon4life

    jtwarwagon4life Green Belt

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  14. jtwarwagon4life

    jtwarwagon4life Green Belt

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    More while punching seems like a big teaching point in former Soviet Bloc countries, more so than Cuba:

     
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  15. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    that side step video is a fantastic one that I incorporated into my training a few weeks back
     
  16. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

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    is this because in the pro ranks assets like toughness, power and endurance become more important, taking a bit of shine off technique?
     
  17. Ilk

    Ilk Blue Belt

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    That is what I was saying. I am from Bulgaria. Not exactly an Soviet country but we were like a brother and sister. Both of my boxing coaches have passed trough the Soviet system and have been national amateur fighters. I can recognise the same fundamentals.

    Definitely using more steps than hips for punching. Shoulder pulling is another. And lastly that movements are taught as a combination not single move. That actually confused me a lot when I was changing from dutch kickboxing.

    When I post a vid here I am usually told to use the hips more. While coaches want me to use the hips at bare minimum. Using the power of the steps(when moving and punching), quads(for body shots and head movement) and calfs (to rise up when static punching especially in the jab and left hook if you want to add power).
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018 at 8:43 PM
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  18. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    No, it's because pro records can be manufactured. A fighter can be very rudimentary but with a very shiny record. As I said , a hustle
     
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  19. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

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    kinda like 97% of australian boxers. it's a shame how shitty the standard of boxing is in australia these days, considering some of the fighters we had in the past. i'm disappointed to say your amateurs have a lot better skills than most of the pros in australia these days.
     
  20. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    I suppose as well that the professionals who look the best will usually be the one backed by a big american promotion with all the money, glitz and glamour to make them look good as well
     

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