Cross arm guard

[theranch]

Anyone have any opinions or experience with the cross arm guard style of Archie Moore used by Kenny Norton and to some extent George Foreman?
As a boxing history nerd i love to look at the techniques of the greats of the past that have fallen out of favour.

Been playing around with it a bit in light boxing sparring recently and i have found it to be a very good way to avoid being hit anywhere but the top of the head. And it seems to have the upside of making your man have to work at a very high rate just to stop you coming forward. However it has the downside of making straight punching rather difficult and head movement limited as well as bringing your elbows away from your body.

Has anyone got any experience, history of, or tutorials on this style of boxing?

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Anyone have any opinions or experience with the cross arm guard style of Archie Moore used by Kenny Norton and to some extent George Foreman?
As a boxing history nerd i love to look at the techniques of the greats of the past that have fallen out of favour.

Been playing around with it a bit in light boxing sparring recently and i have found it to be a very good way to avoid being hit anywhere but the top of the head. And it seems to have the upside of making your man have to work at a very high rate just to stop you coming forward. However it has the downside of making straight punching rather difficult and head movement limited as well as bringing your elbows away from your body.

Has anyone got any experience, history of, or tutorials on this style of boxing?

I can't give you much information, but I've been trying to use it. This might be interesting to you from a muay thai perspective:

 

[CoolKnees]

Try this thread:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/studying-the-cross-armed-guard-a-k-a-the-lock.2649203/

Lots of good information on that type of guard.

 

[ARIZE]

Sorry TS, my post is irrelevant to your question but: @AndyMaBobs. Do you realize what it's said in the video, no?
IN MT WE DON'T USE LOTS OF HEAD MOVEMENTS. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT SAMART.

This video is my new best friend...

 

[Paradigm]

I can't give you much information, but I've been trying to use it. This might be interesting to you from a muay thai perspective:

How random...I just posted a cross armed guard video in the arm swing thread.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Sorry TS, my post is irrelevant to your question but: @AndyMaBobs. Do you realize what it's said in the video, no?
IN MT WE DON'T USE LOTS OF HEAD MOVEMENTS. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT SAMART.

This video is my new best friend...

It's cool, she's a clinch fighter anyway the best head movement is the subtle type you don't always notice.

 

[Beijing Power]

I'm by no means an expert, but I like to use it after a left hook to the body or after a missed hook to the head.

It's not a guard I use statically but instead use it when I feel I'm in a position where I could get countered before transitioning back to my normal guard.

 

[ARIZE]

@AndyMaBobs

My comment wasn't about Sylvie... It's directed towards people like Sano who are very disrespectful by having a different opinion than me on the matter, and even tries to argue with me...

But they forget that I KNOW ALL... they just don't...

 

[Sano]

@AndyMaBobs

My comment wasn't about Sylvie... It's directed towards people like Sano who are very disrespectful by having a different opinion than me on the matter, and even tries to argue with me...

But they forget that I KNOW ALL... they just don't...

Thou have summoned me.

Btw, we could use some more quality threads on MT techniques. I've just been looking through some Sylvie and an videos, including long guard tactics, and it's great. We need more intricate MT stuff that ties into other formats as well (like MMA).

Like articles on hand trapping and using the elbow, or the long guard, or specific knee entries, or clinch entries, feints with kicks, calf kicks so forth. Free fighting can learn a lot from MT.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Thou have summoned me.

Btw, we could use some more quality threads on MT techniques. I've just been looking through some Sylvie and an videos, including long guard tactics, and it's great. We need more intricate MT stuff that ties into other formats as well (like MMA).

Like articles on hand trapping and using the elbow, or the long guard, or specific knee entries, or clinch entries, feints with kicks, calf kicks so forth. Free fighting can learn a lot from MT.

Sylvie's long guard stuff is great. It's helped me a lot. It's actually really fun in sparring to just randomly switch from Dutch style into Muay Khao and see people totally not be able to deal with me walking them down with knees and stuffing their punches with the long guard.

 

[ARIZE]

@Sano

There have been some good threads about MT in here, but it's mostly as a discussion, not just some analysis from a single guy. Even thought people like AndyMaBobs do some articles from time to time, it's still a forum, so it's not the best place for complete analysis imo. Specialized sites, like Sylvie's for example, are great ways to find what you need, then come here to discuss about details.

Because here, we have some experienced guys but also a lot of people who don't really know their stuff (anyone that doesn't agree with me), trolls, misunderstandings, beginners who thing they will re-invited hot water etc... In specialized sites, even if you don't always agree with the author, most of the times you have infos about them, you know if he's legit or full of...

And also, writing a good article is not an easy task for everyone.

 

[Sano]

Sylvie's long guard stuff is great. It's helped me a lot. It's actually really fun in sparring to just randomly switch from Dutch style into Muay Khao and see people totally not be able to deal with me walking them down with knees and stuffing their punches with the long guard.

Yeah I'm playing around with switching between the long guard, the elbow guard, shoulder rolling, cross arm block and a normal guard lol. Front foot to back foot, orthodox to southpaw (for specific setups). It's crazy fun how some things tie into other things really well, and unexpectedly.

Long guard, to high elbow guard while closing the distance, ties in really well to either smothering and setting up a rear uppercut + lead hook, or slipping their lead hand to the outside and coming back with a spinning back elbow lol! Somrak style. Fun things like that.

That's the beauty of martial arts. There are endless possibilites and you never stop improving and learning. Personally I find it really cool switching between styles, but adjusting them so it fits.

 

[Sano]

@Sano

There have been some good threads about MT in here, but it's mostly as a discussion, not just some analysis from a single guy. Even thought people like AndyMaBobs do some articles from time to time, it's still a forum, so it's not the best place for complete analysis imo. Specialized sites, like Sylvie's for example, are great ways to find what you need, then come here to discuss about details.

Because here, we have some experienced guys but also a lot of people who don't really know their stuff (anyone that doesn't agree with me), trolls, misunderstandings, beginners who thing they will re-invited hot water etc... In specialized sites, even if you don't always agree with the author, most of the times you have infos about them, you know if he's legit or full of...

And also, writing a good article is not an easy task for everyone.

I will definitely check out more of their stuff. I've been subscribed to both ans and Silvies youtube for a long time, but I've been so preoccupied with boxing that I haven't had to chance to think about other styles really.

 

[Fire of Youth]

Yeah I'm playing around with switching between the long guard, the elbow guard, shoulder rolling, cross arm block and a normal guard lol. Front foot to back foot, orthodox to southpaw (for specific setups). It's crazy fun how some things tie into other things really well, and unexpectedly.

Long guard, to high elbow guard while closing the distance, ties in really well to either smothering and setting up a rear uppercut + lead hook, or slipping their lead hand to the outside and coming back with a spinning back elbow lol! Somrak style. Fun things like that.

That's the beauty of martial arts. There are endless possibilites and you never stop improving and learning. Personally I find it really cool switching between styles, but adjusting them so it fits.

What is the Elbow Guard?

 

[mikiemike87]

I loved how this morphed into a muay thai thread.

Before Sylvie, there wasn't much online sources of thai style muay thai. So the fact that Sylvie can speak and translate Thai has been a god send. She does miss the mark every now and then so I find it important to just watch the instructor sometimes. For instance, one thing she missed was the way Chatchai Sasakul taught weight transfer in broader steps, yes it can be used to move around the ring and is absolutely applicable to mma in a bigger space, but it can be also used staying in one place. So I took a private with him myself, and he covered most of the things he did with Sylvie, except a small drill of uppercuts to the bag using the same weight transfer in place to slowly start the ingraining process. Anyway I digress.

I believe the biggest hurdle to bridge in terms of analysis of Muay Thai is the translation. So much gets lost in translation., that it gets filtered through body language when foreigners come to learn. And also much of fight iq is taught intuitively to the boys with little instruction. Its mostly free form technical sparring and boxing sparring, and whatever they learn sharpening their skills in the ring. Attachai and Namsaknoi who have spent time teaching beginners have really good insights on how to teach ring iq and ring strategy verbally, but unfortunately so much of the good stuff is nonverbal.

 

[Paradigm]

I loved how this morphed into a muay thai thread.

Before Sylvie, there wasn't much online sources of thai style muay thai. So the fact that Sylvie can speak and translate Thai has been a god send. She does miss the mark every now and then so I find it important to just watch the instructor sometimes. For instance, one thing she missed was the way Chatchai Sasakul taught weight transfer in broader steps, yes it can be used to move around the ring and is absolutely applicable to mma in a bigger space, but it can be also used staying in one place. So I took a private with him myself, and he covered most of the things he did with Sylvie, except a small drill of uppercuts to the bag using the same weight transfer in place to slowly start the ingraining process. Anyway I digress.

I believe the biggest hurdle to bridge in terms of analysis of Muay Thai is the translation. So much gets lost in translation., that it gets filtered through body language when foreigners come to learn. And also much of fight iq is taught intuitively to the boys with little instruction. Its mostly free form technical sparring and boxing sparring, and whatever they learn sharpening their skills in the ring. Attachai and Namsaknoi who have spent time teaching beginners have really good insights on how to teach ring iq and ring strategy verbally, but unfortunately so much of the good stuff is nonverbal.

Attachai (if we're talking Fairtex) was instructing at Evolve so I'm assuming his grasp of English helps get the concept across verbally better.

 

[mikiemike87]

Namsaknoi too I believe, Im looking forward to more thais returning from Evolve with better teaching skills.

 

[Sinister]

The Lock isn't a thing you just play around with. You hunt down Billy Moore and have him teach it to you.

Mongoose Gym, San Diego.

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

Guess that if someone's trying to use it in muay Thai, they can look for experienced krus who know what they're doing, too. The context is different enough that I don't think you'd be able to straight port it from boxing to muay Thai.