Criticism of Jordan Peterson thread v3

[jimmas99]

Enforced monogamy is a widely understood term used in the social sciences to refer to monogamous couples being the norm which is reinforced by societal standards. In recent history, essentially every man could get married at a young age and have his sexual needs fulfilled that way. These days, that is no longer universal and there are "Chads" that are drowning in pussy while incels are dying of thirst. Enforced monogamy would help reestablish that dynamic. Whether you personally support that or not, that is a clear argument with evidence to support it.

Can you direct me to a society were monogamous couples isn't the norm?

I would really like to visit....

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Can you direct me to a society were monogamous couples isn't the norm?

I would really like to visit....

It's not that monogamy is no longer the norm, but it's not being enforced as much as it once was and it's gradually becoming less of a norm and is continually being enforced less and less by society. This dynamic is what is creating Chads and incels when they didn't really exist before, at least not in any comparable way. I happen to be a social/sexual liberal, but I can acknowledge these issues and potential solutions. I draw the line at the government using force to enforce monogamy, but advocating for more of a return to tradition is reasonable, even if I don't necessarily agree or at least not wholeheartedly.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Lol. What an asshole.

Says the guy with the really annoying av who got banned.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Can you direct me to a society were monogamous couples isn't the norm?

I would really like to visit....

genuinely not sure if trolling. polygamy remains common in many shithole countries. https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-link-between-polygamy-and-war

 

[ultramanhyata]

Had never seen this particular, early clip of JP before. The guy is a next-level liar and hypocrite.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

Had never seen this particular, early clip of JP before. The guy is a next-level liar and hypocrite.

How so? I'm genuinely asking because I don't see anything egregious in that clip.

 

[ultramanhyata]

How so? I'm genuinely asking because I don't see anything egregious in that clip.

The point is that JP's entire basis for determining that atheists were not a "persecuted group" (big book sales and media coverage for guys like Dawkins and Harris) is now, following his own ascent in the marketplace, used by critics of JP to discount and deride his own, massive persecution complex.

But JP now declares those same arguments, his own, pre-fame arguments, facile and illegitimate. The shoe is on the other foot and suddenly there is much more to the story. It is the definition of hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

The point is that JP's entire basis for determining that atheists were not a "persecuted group" (big book sales and media coverage for guys like Dawkins and Harris) is now, following his own ascent in the marketplace, used by critics of JP to discount and deride his own, massive persecution complex.

But JP now declares those same arguments, his own, pre-fame arguments, facile and illegitimate. The shoe is on the other foot and suddenly there is much more to the story. It is the definition of hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty.

You can't change your opinion? I'm fairly acquainted with Peterson's lectures but I haven't dived into his SJW stuff. It's very clear you can have a best selling book while being under heavy scrutiny for your views.

 

[lfd0311]

The point is that JP's entire basis for determining that atheists were not a "persecuted group" (big book sales and media coverage for guys like Dawkins and Harris) is now, following his own ascent in the marketplace, used by critics of JP to discount and deride his own, massive persecution complex.

But JP now declares those same arguments, his own, pre-fame arguments, facile and illegitimate. The shoe is on the other foot and suddenly there is much more to the story. It is the definition of hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty.

Whta "massive persecution complex" would that be?

 

[ultramanhyata]

Whta "massive persecution complex" would that be?

Conservative, white male aggrievement is Peterson's middle name and stock in trade. If you're someone for whom that point even needs to be debated I'm not going to waste my time discussing the guy with you.

 

[lfd0311]

Conservative, white male aggrievement is Peterson's middle name and stock in trade. If you're someone for whom that point even needs to be debated I'm not going to waste my time discussing the guy with you.

Of course you don't want to debate that. Because it's not true. You'd rather just hang out in your bubble, rolling your eyes at "Conservatives".

 

[ultramanhyata]

Of course you don't want to debate that. Because it's not true. You'd rather just hang out in your bubble, rolling your eyes at "Conservatives".

Glad to hear you don't really think the current cultural climate is antagonistic towards white males with traditional values. I guess I had developed the wrong impression of you based on so many of your posts.

 

[lfd0311]

Glad to hear you don't really think the current cultural climate is antagonistic towards white males with traditional values. I guess I had developed the wrong impression of you based on so many of your posts.

I mean, nice attempt to twist what I said, but no, not really. I think there are groups that would like it to be, but those are small. That narrative is pushed by Foxnews for ratings.

Now, on to what you really knew I was talking about, Your interpretation of Jordan Peterson and his views, which are horribly incorrect at best.

 

[djacobox372]

Peterson is just one guy who thinks and has something to offer to the conversation. Labeling him "genius," "dangerous," "alt right," etc just reinforces his viewpoints on identity politics.

Personally I think hes a good voice to have in the conversation, even if hes whiny and very ignorant of matters outside of his own field.

 

[Phisher]

Back to cherrypicking examples from the animal kingdom to justify the status quo in post-capitalist Western societies.

Funny how it's always insects and crustaceans on his mind instead of the mammalian species, which are a hell of a lot closer to humans, that exhibit behaviors like matriarchal dominance and polyamory that don't exactly mesh with his ideas of a "normal," hierarchical society.

Oh, and this isn't even an accurate representation of the behavior in ant colonies. Every member of the colony save for the reproductive alates works non-stop from the time that it reaches maturity until it dies. The colony is a superorganism in which each part functions for the benefit of the collective.

That sounds like socialism to me, but I don't get paid seven figures a year to justify the worldview of angry, entitled incels, so what the fuck do I know?

I can't believe that people take this charlatan seriously.

 

[RubberGuard5]

Back to cherrypicking examples from the animal kingdom to justify the status quo in post-capitalist Western societies.

Funny how it's always insects and crustaceans on his mind instead of the mammalian species, which are a hell of a lot closer to humans, that exhibit behaviors like matriarchal dominance and polyamory that don't exactly mesh with his ideas of a "normal," hierarchical society.

Oh, and this isn't even an accurate representation of the behavior in ant colonies. Every member of the colony save for the reproductive alates works non-stop from the time that it reaches maturity until it dies. The colony is a superorganism in which each part functions for the benefit of the collective.

That sounds like socialism to me, but I don't get paid seven figures a year to justify the worldview of angry, entitled incels, so what the fuck do I know?

I can't believe that people take this charlatan seriously.

It looks to me that he simply made a joke.

 

[Kindacrazy]

It is in general extremely ignorant of anthropology and from what I've seen, the supporters of it resort to stereotypes and falsehoods like "men hunted the mammoths that's why we chase women" or something.

You clearly know nothing about evolutionary psychology, and I mean literally nothing. I wouldn't classify it as a science, but considering the idiotic suppositions you put forward constantly it might as well be logicians work by comparison.

 

[Kindacrazy]

As patients need to be advocates for themselves and much of what goes into health is lifestyle habits uhc is not equality of outcome. You can have the same healthcare access opportunity and wildly different health outcomes.

Especially when there is an additional for profit private tier of insurance on top.

Let me start by saying you are clearly a fucking retard. So listen carefully and learn.

Your statement is as idiotic as me claiming that everyone needs a Porsche or they wouldn't have equal access to the ability to drive a Porsche. I support national health care which is to the left of the single payer that everyone is generally clamoring for. But unlike someone like you, I have actually considered the issue carefully and come to my conclusions based on the factors I have considered. The outcome here is the equality of the service provided. How anyone could be so stupid as to believe what you just wrote actually pains me, it is so irrational that it is the kind of thing I would expect from a semi-retarded grieving mother. The kind of thing that some overwrote semi-intelligent would say and everyone would dismiss because they were, "in a state".

This is base level leftist dishonesty. This is the kind of thing that people with very moderate levels of intelligence convince idiots (that would be you in this situation) of in order to get support for their ideology.

I am sure if you have read this far that you think I am being harsh. I am in fact not being harsh at all. This type of ideological stupidity and the resulting feelings of entitlement that they enable are going to result in ever growing civil dysfunction and eventually civil war. I am being literal in that and I can back that up with a great deal of historical precedence.

 

[Kindacrazy]

National healthcare does not preclude that those with the means to do so, could not pay for better care.

National Healthcare is an entry point for everyone *to have access* to a base level of healthcare, ie., equal opportunity. It does not erect a ceiling to healthcare, which would be equal outcome.

National healthcare implies nothing about a parallel private system. My comment about Franklin has a greater context. In an earlier conversation about the leanings of professors at universities, particularly in the humanities, he told me he had never heard a professor support the notion of equality of outcome. I didn't believe him. Then in this thread he said that national healthcare is an equality of opportunity system (or a meritocratic system). This is absurd, it is clearly dishonest and quite frankly obviously intentionally so. No intellectual could spend 30 seconds considering the issue could reasonably come to the conclusion that a national healthcare system is not inherently, ideologically an equality of outcome system. I was calling him on his bullshit.

 

[Kindacrazy]

The point is that JP's entire basis for determining that atheists were not a "persecuted group" (big book sales and media coverage for guys like Dawkins and Harris) is now, following his own ascent in the marketplace, used by critics of JP to discount and deride his own, massive persecution complex.

But JP now declares those same arguments, his own, pre-fame arguments, facile and illegitimate. The shoe is on the other foot and suddenly there is much more to the story. It is the definition of hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty.

JP has a persecution complex now? I am pretty sure hes all about avoiding the philosophy of persecuted groups in favor of the notion of individual responsibility. I am the one that says that white males are the most persecuted group in society and nobody has ever even attempted to dispute the issue with any kind of real facts.