Crazy things that Christians and Republicans believe

[esdoornblad]

You were not clear about spontaneous abortions. That is a totally different subject. I don't know how many women you know but the ones I know who have had them mourn deeply about it. Are you suggesting otherwise? No one I know takes it lightly....

I am not sure though why you are how an individual mourns the loss of a child in the womb..... I think you are just looking for an opportunity to be critical but without making good points.

@The Crow made the best point I have ever heard in this thread recently. He said why should anyone expect serious answers and discussion when they aren't treated seriously. If your point is just to mock then your point isn't worth any time.

What are your suggestions for these people whom you do not know for mourning better?

Actually I was clear in my first reply, then I clarified it for you further because I thought you might have missed something. Of course women sometimes mourn a miscarriage, particularly when its later-term and the woman knows its happened. On the other hand, many times, in shorter-term cases, the woman is not aware of the baby's death. The latter case may be the more interesting one, because it happens with alarming frequency (and is not represented in the statistic that I quoted, which is the rate based on known pregancy). Probably 40% of all fertilized zygotes (I mean babies) die. These deaths are exascerbated by risky behaviours of the mother. From wikipedia;

Risk factors for miscarriage include an older parent, previous miscarriage, exposure to tobacco smoke, obesity, diabetes, thyroid problems, and drug or alcohol use

And I am serious. It is almost certain that my wife miscarried before having my daughter, but those dead babies are not on my radar. On the other hand, if my daughter died, it would probably kill me. This very clear reality of the situation is carefully avoided when religion enters the picture, which attempts to charge the issue emotionally by using words like "killed baby" instead of "miscarried zygote".

 

[franklinstower]

Actually I was clear in my first reply, then I clarified it for you further because I thought you might have missed something. Of course women sometimes mourn a miscarriage, particularly when its later-term and the woman knows its happened. On the other hand, many times, in shorter-term cases, the woman is not aware of the baby's death. The latter case may be the more interesting one, because it happens with alarming frequency (and is not represented in the statistic that I quoted, which is the rate based on known pregancy). Probably 40% of all fertilized zygotes (I mean babies) die. These deaths are exascerbated by risky behaviours of the mother. From wikipedia;

Risk factors for miscarriage include an older parent, previous miscarriage, exposure to tobacco smoke, obesity, diabetes, thyroid problems, and drug or alcohol use

And I am serious. It is almost certain that my wife miscarried before having my daughter, but those dead babies are not on my radar. On the other hand, if my daughter died, it would probably kill me. This very clear reality of the situation is carefully avoided when religion enters the picture, which attempts to charge the issue emotionally by using words like "killed baby" instead of "miscarried zygote".

You have asked a lot of leading questions but finally have barely made your point. You are saying in very roundabout ways that you dispute calling a fetus at certain stages a baby or a life. You could have just said that.


At what point in the development of a fetus do YOU call it a child or a life? Is there a point at which you think abortion is immoral or wrong?

 

[esdoornblad]

You have asked a lot of leading questions but finally have barely made your point. You are saying in very roundabout ways that you dispute calling a fetus at certain stages a baby or a life. You could have just said that.


At what point in the development of a fetus do YOU call it a child or a life? Is there a point at which you think abortion is immoral or wrong?

I aspire to use biologically correct terminology. So I call a fetus a fetus, a child a child, and a life a life -- according to their proper definitions. I do not engage in any Orwellian relabeling of things to bolster my case. This is an apologist tactic. My feeling is that early-term abortions are completely acceptable, for the same reason that early-term spontaneous abortion is basically not on anyone's radar. Often nobody knows it happened. I think late-term abortion is probably wrong for exactly the same reason that late-term spontaneous abortion is tragic. My wife was in her early 30s and for that reason we decided to have an amniocentesis, which in about 0.6% of cases (actually, it depends on the quality of the staff) will kill the fetus. I would certainly not consent to a procedure that had a nearly 1/100 chance of killing my daughter.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Im sure this thread has produced some very calm, rationale, and insightful conversations that are bridging the gap of understanding between both sides.

 

[franklinstower]

Im sure this thread has produced some very calm, rationale, and insightful conversations that are bridging the gap of understanding between both sides.

It has.

 

[franklinstower]

I aspire to use biologically correct terminology. So I call a fetus a fetus, a child a child, and a life a life -- according to their proper definitions. I do not engage in any Orwellian relabeling of things to bolster my case. This is an apologist tactic. My feeling is that early-term abortions are completely acceptable, for the same reason that early-term spontaneous abortion is basically not on anyone's radar. Often nobody knows it happened. I think late-term abortion is probably wrong for exactly the same reason that late-term spontaneous abortion is tragic. My wife was in her early 30s and for that reason we decided to have an amniocentesis, which in about 0.6% of cases (actually, it depends on the quality of the staff) will kill the fetus. I would certainly not consent to a procedure that had a nearly 1/100 chance of killing my daughter.

I don't know the correct term but am probably in agreement here. I would not do it myself but cannot make the leap to condemning something like the morning after pill or other very early medical methods.

The thinking in Christianity is usually that the soul was created at the moment of conception making abortion of any kind unacceptable.

Catholic thinking goes even further and condemns contraceptives of all kinds. I cannot accept the reasoning behind this and think it is basically insanity.