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Discussion in 'The War Room' started by superpunch, Oct 8, 2017.
What are we doing exactly to keep these babies alive?
You know not what existed before the stars. How could you possibly begin to suggest whether light existed?
You: "You didn't even read it!!"
Me : "Yes I did"
You: "I don't believe you!"
Great talk fish boy
The God of The Gaps. I rest my case.
Ok, you have NOT been exposed to the ideas that I have. There is so much to say just in your one paragraph.
Let me start by saying just this one thing. The Semetic peoples were absolutely in a relationship with God. But that relationship was polluted by the people and the times they lived in. They made mistakes, they believed God was telling them to do horrible things (tribal things) that God almost certainly was not. Just because it happened in the Bible does not make it right.
Also some of the Old Testament is mythology and never happened. Scholarly Christianity, that listens to literary and historical criticism, accepts this totally. These people were progressing in fits and starts out of barbarism evidenced by the majority of still radically imperfect Jews and Christians today.
The anger and jealousy is understood in a different light once you understand what God is (as far as it can be understood). The Semetic peoples had to give language to their relationship with God and even their visions and mystical experience did not happen in a vacuum. It HAD to come through the people just above their level of awareness.
Lets just say there is a God and it is infinite power and love and consciousness like Christianity says (I know you dont believe that). It turns out you can enter into connection with that power at a level appropriate to you. But it turns out that the amount of power absorbed is dependent to a large degree on the focus and value you put on God. More value, God first, above all things, leads to great power and transformation. THAT is the jealously of God shot through all of the scriptures.
Gods anger is similar in that Gods anger is felt by the Christian at times and it is corrective and loving but of course the Semetic peoples often misinterpreted natural disasters as coming from Gods anger and judgment just like how some preachers today still do.
I didn't make a claim of proof you dolt. You were
Research on the causes and possible solutions. Btw, you can’t be serious. You don’t think that anyone is trying to find help for this?
Maybe light came from unicorn farts who knows? You claimed it didnt exist prior to the stars. How could you know that?
Jesus believed wholly in the old testament God and his rules. Scholarly christianity is a pretty modern phenomenon.
I think it's much more obvious that the Jews, enslaved at times, intermingling in a friendly manner at other times with other people, adopted aspects of other religions. I think these Jews, like the people of the other religions, were attempting to explain a world they did not understand, at all.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how I am being irrationally angry by pointing out that your rhetoric sounds like it comes straight from the mouth of Deepak Chopra.
As a fellow Christian I appreciate your work on passing on the knowledge of Christ an God. It’s important for the future of the world. I guess defending my faith in God is one thing that I find important. I also believe that we as Christians should do more to keep God in all aspects of our life. Some stay so silent that laws are being changed to limit our voice. I hope that doesn’t continue. God bless you sir
Again, when you show me the respect of answering my questions, then maybe I’ll answer yours. That’s how normal conversations work. They usually don’t include sexual devices (your cockring of truth) that had nothing to do with anything in the conversation. It just makes you look unintelligent.
I asked you if plants came before our sun. You said it did and justified it with metaphysics. and claimed a current area of ignorance as being the domain of God. It's rather like a Catholic Bishop telling Albert Einstein that proof of God is in our brains, because God chose to make it impossible for us to know about how our minds work by studying the brain. When his assertion is blown away, he simply moves to another point of ignorance.
Once again, you are simply presenting the god of the gaps non argument. I claimed our Earth does not receive enough light for plants to evolve in the first place from stars. It requires our sun to photosynthesize. Going "Well, you dont know, so I know God did it" is tedious and worthless to any rational discussion.
You started this by making a positive claim. In my first post that critiqued your position, I asked you to prove your initial assertion. The burden of proof for your assertion lies upon you 100%.
And to your post to franklinstower. Yes, your religion is to be limited. Same as every other religion in a secular republic. Same way I, as an atheist cannot force you to not believe within your churches and homes. I would not try to ban your religion even if I had the power to do so, despite me seeing it as a tragic waste of time and credulity.
Rules and laws can change. I will continue to try and stop religious oppression as much as I can. You can’t stop that, and simply typing the words or saying them won’t stop it either. Again, you answer my questions and maybe I’ll answer yours. That’s how conversation works. You won’t demand and get anything from me until you show some respect. I’ll await your copy and paste response. Try not to speak about your cockring of truth. That’s not a real thing. Btw, atheism is a waste of your time.
No you claimed the Bible was wrong and that light didn't exist prior to the stars. I know you're in 2 conversations, but this is an important thing to mix up if you're gonna accuse me of fallacy.
The Bible gave an account of creation. Is there proof it happened in the EXACT way genesis 1 describes? No. There goes the whole God of the gaps bs. Try something else.
Try backing your claim as I haven't made one
I never said that. Strawmans aren't a good look on you
I lost my internet connection, using phone.
You don't know what Jesus believed. You know what he said to people that they could understand. Remember he said that there was much he had to give but they were not ready to receive it.
Your second paragraph is totally congruent with what I am saying as long as we add God being in the equation. I was taught this from the beginning even to the point of having those other religion stories presented for comparison.
Many of the very earliest Christians from the first 300.years did not take genesis and many other stories literally. Historical criticism is new (and that doesn't make it bad if you believe in progress and proves religion does evolve and change its mind) Common sense is not new.
I sort of Got off the point about your anger rational or not being bad for your health with all of this. I guess I was just trying to point something out to you that might ease the burden.
My disagreement with fundamentalist Christianity is.similar to yours but I have NO anger about it because I value my peace of mind way too much.
I can see that fundamentalist Christianity and the people in it DO absolutely have a connection with God but.problematicaly it has been presented to them in away that requires a suspension of reason. I don't mean that in the way you probably do as there is a God and power from God.
When these Christians read the Bible, even fundamentalist style, they receive the Holy Spirit to one degree or another. They DO have access to power and that fuels a misguided certainty about HOW they interpret scripture. This is why you see them sometimes arguing against reason. Most of them are not stupid, or just tribal or even willingly ignorant. They are just wrongly interpreting the power in their lives with being right.
Cant lost more tonight. Too hard on my phone.
Jesus repeatedly told his adherents to follow the old law in completion. It seems rather obvious that he was a Jew among Jews, and believed in second temple judaism.
Jesus, as the Bible says, came to vindicate original sin and give people his grace, free of charge. If the events of the old testament are myths, then he based his beliefs upon things that were not true. At that point, I see no reason to talk about him being holy in any such way. It seems to me that he was genuinely wrong about God and the messiah, like all the other failed messiahs of his time.
The founders of your religion, and the most important thinkers of your faith, like Augustine and Aquinas, understood that the Bible was true and perfect in all it's parts. In fact, they would either torture and kill you, or simply kill you, for saying the things you are saying.
You have consistently stated that the Bible is right. You are claiming whatever happens before the big bang, or some other point of current interest as the domain of God. God of the Gaps. I'm done. All you have are insults, and you have not made a single attempt to be honest with anyone here.
My last post should read. Did not believe many. Not any. Its important to my point about the nearly christian beliefs.
You are not arguing against Christianity as I and many know it. Augustin and Aquinac are not part of Orthodox Christianity.
The way you understand what Jesus thought is incorrect. He held old law and created a movement that transcended it.