Could you have created a better world than god?

Thurisaz said:
No, and I see you're still busy being devoted to butthurt, so by all means carry on your foaming at the mouth. I'm sure some here find it entertaining.
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I'm usually pretty easy going but I find your cowardice to be particularly distasteful, so run along now, you're way out of your league here.

Edit: I'm actually surprised to see you in a @meauneau thread, I've seen him reduce you to a blubbering idiot on occasion. Maybe you have found your balls over the past few months...
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
Performing an act "outside" of time is an oxymoron, so is existing "outside" of spacial dimensions. Why do theists often cite these as characteristics of their god?
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I'm specifically talking about the law of non-contradiction.
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
OK so do the other laws apply to him? Is the law on non-contradiction the only logical law he is bound by?
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Calling the law of non-contradiction an actual law is a bit of a misnomer. This isn't about laws, it's about a coherent idea. You might as well argue that since God can't lift the color orange, he doesn't exist.
 
dontsnitch said:
Calling the law of non-contradiction an actual law is a bit of a misnomer. This isn't about laws, it's about a coherent idea. You might as well argue that since God can't lift the color orange, he doesn't exist.
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So can he step "outside" of space when there is no "outside"?
 
dontsnitch said:
I don't know that God is a physical entity that he needs to be housed in the first place.
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Space doesn't house just physical entities, it house energy as well. In fact I define space as:

The fabric that allows things to exist and change

Does that match your definition?
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
Space doesn't house just physical entities, it house energy as well. In fact I define space as:

The fabric that allows things to exist and change

Does that match your definition?
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Energy is physical. It can be measured.

If we define space as all possible places of existence, then I agree God exists somewhere in said space since if he did not it would be incoherent.
 
dontsnitch said:
Energy is physical. It can be measured.

If we define space as all possible places of existence, then I agree God exists somewhere in said space since if he did not it would be incoherent.
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Wow we just saved ourselves 10 pages by defining our terms beforehand LOL. Now time, I define time as emergent rather than fundamental, from what I've been reading, Physicists are starting to define it as a measurement or relationship between events (back to Aristotle). Anything in space that changes states is measured by time, in other words if something acts then it is measured by time.

What is your definition of time?
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
Wow we just saved ourselves 10 pages by defining our terms beforehand LOL. Now time, I define time as emergent rather than fundamental, from what I've been reading, Physicists are starting to define it as a measurement or relationship between events. Anything in space that changes states is measured by time, in other words if something acts then it is measured by time.

What is your definition of time?
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Time is relative to the observer. Just to skip ahead a few more pages, if God operates at the speed of light, to use our mode of thinking, who knows what his perception may be like.
 
dontsnitch said:
Time is relative to the observer. Just to skip ahead a few more pages, if God operates at the speed of light, to use our mode of thinking, who knows what his perception may be like.
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The *passing* of time is relative to the observer, anything travelling at the speed of light will still experience change and still can be measured. If god acts then he is measured by time.

So now we have a definition of space and time that god is bound by. Do you agree?
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
The *passing* of time is relative to the observer, anything travelling at the speed of light will still experience change and still can be measured. If god acts then he is measured by time.

So now we have a definition of space and time that god is bound by. Do you agree?
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I only used the speed of light to speak in terms we can identify with, I'm not saying that God actually operates within that framework.

There is nothing about the law of non-contradiction that is broken by suggesting that God exists in a system outside of our own. Mario and Luigi can go through every tunnel they want seeking to escape, but nothing they do will ever make them leave the cartridge. They can argue that it's "impossible" to operate outside of their simulation, which may be true, but it doesn't make it objectively incoherent.
 
dontsnitch said:
I only used the speed of light to speak in terms we can identify with, I'm not saying that God actually operates within that framework.

There is nothing about the law of non-contradiction that is broken by suggesting that God exists in a system outside of our own. Mario and Luigi can go through every tunnel they want seeking to escape, but nothing they do will ever make them leave the cartridge. They can argue that it's "impossible" to operate outside of their simulation, which may be true, but it doesn't make it objectively incoherent.
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"outside of our own"

Key wording there and I agree, like M theory suggests there can be many different dimensions of reality. But they are still "space" and if actions happen within them they are within "time".
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
"outside of our own"

Key wording there and I agree, like M theory suggests there can be many different dimensions of reality. But they are still "space" and if actions happen within them they are within "time".
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I'm less certain about the time, given that time is not fixed per se, but I see nothing wrong with how you're defining space. If God exists, he exists in some facet. If God operates, there is causality of some sort. Nothing too controversial here.
 
Thurisaz said:
Perhaps the stupidest possible way to pretend you didn't get the point.

...everything. I'm not omniscient nor is God. And not knowing everything does not mean not understanding what a contradiction is and why it does not carry a meaning. You're simply far too stupid to have a discussion about this.

Argumentum ad obtusam, as always. That's all you have. Bye, again.
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You know knowing everything does mean that what you see as contradictions, or impossibilities may not really be so. Even outside of a cosmic sense it was once thought it was impossible for man to fly. You say that such things do not carry meaning, but yet we understand what they are, even if we can't imagine them fully. There are also examples of impossible shapes that can exist in the real world, but are understood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_object

In the end you come into a philosophical debate unable to let go of your deeply held faith. It would be best if you avoided this. Even you realize this, that is why you insult and run away.
 
dontsnitch said:
If we define space as all possible places of existence, then I agree God exists somewhere in said space since if he did not it would be incoherent.
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That definition of space is quite odd, considering it has never referred to anything outside the material plane (if you leave out the conceptual semantic of its name, but that obviously wasn't what you were about).
 
dontsnitch said:
I'm less certain about the time, given that time is not fixed per se, but I see nothing wrong with how you're defining space. If God exists, he exists in some facet. If God operates, there is causality of some sort. Nothing too controversial here.
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Perfect, so when someone claims that god is outside of space and time it should be qualified. Outside of our particular 3 spacial dimensions and perhaps a different experience of events. Glad we can agree!
 
Voodoo_Child906 said:
Perfect, so when someone claims that god is outside of space and time it should be qualified. Outside of our particular 3 spacial dimensions and perhaps a different experience of events. Glad we can agree!
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God existing "outside of our system" wouldn't be incoherent, though practically unfathomable, no different than Mario and Luigi. I think we agree?
 
dontsnitch said:
God existing "outside of our system" wouldn't be incoherent, though practically unfathomable, no different than Mario and Luigi. I think we agree?
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As long as "our system" is defined as 3D spaced then it would be perfectly coherent mathematically as a lot of Cosmological theories contain different dimensions. Trying to conceptualize these different dimensions with our human experience though... LOL not going to happen.
 
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