Could Ramon Dekkers have made it in the UFC?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Swarthy, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. Swarthy Yellow Card

    Swarthy
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    As the title asks could he have made a run for the title and been champ if he had been in the UFC in his prime?



    I would say yes.

    In saying that any other great Kick Boxers who you think coulda made the transition successfully like Joanna J?

    I reckon a Young John Wayne Parr coulda done alright.
     
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  2. AimedWithV Wound in the Force

    AimedWithV
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    He fought in MMA...
     
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  3. Swarthy Yellow Card

    Swarthy
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    I said in the UFC and in his Prime.
     
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  4. NRG Green Belt

    NRG
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    His prime was what, 5 years before his fight in MMA? I say no.
     
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  5. Typrune Goatley Brown Belt

    Typrune Goatley
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    Everyone would be frightened to stand with him. It would depend how good his takedown defense and grappling defense turned out which would likely require 5 to 10 years training to become a UFC champ. At that point his striking would not be as good as it is when he focuses 100% on striking yet it would still be lightyears ahead of all other MMA fighters.

    I know Jerome Le Banner had a couple MMA fights but I always wished he would have taken it more serious and/or started in MMA younger. I always thought JLB had the perfect style to translate to MMA. I would hate to be hit by him in 4 oz gloves.

    I hope we see more successful crossovers soon but so far in the history of great kickboxers becoming highly ranked MMA fighters it goes:

    Cro Cop and Hunt












    And then a big gap before everyone else
     
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  6. AimedWithV Wound in the Force

    AimedWithV
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    Oh. I see.

    Well, when he was in his prime (90s) UFC was division-less. And he was a LW. Same size as Sudo.

    Uno was the king of all the light fighters back then, but he was training with Dutch camps that trained for MMA as well.
    He could've made a good career, depends how well he would learn the grappling ways...
     
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  7. Darbo Purple Belt

    Darbo
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    Loved Dekkers and I've been a fan of Parr for some time too, did you catch his kick boxing fight in Bellator?
    Fun fucking fight.
     
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  8. DarkneT Sherdog hero

    DarkneT
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    Mediocre success if you ask me
     
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  9. mon Purple Belt

    mon
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    This was raised in the past and I still believe no is the answer. The diamond was awesome and part of it was his commitment to each strike, he'd put all his hips into it and that sort of commitment leads to being on your back.

    Great kickboxing but MMA, I don't think so.
     
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  10. The Moloko man Brown Belt

    The Moloko man
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    Amazing video swarthy....thx for posting it

    I definitely think he could have made a big impact on the UFC if he was in his prime...

    Some things he had going for him right off the bat....noted killer instinct (I find this very important in mma)
    .... he had trained in judo when he was younger
    .....he trained at golden glory


    Obviously as people are pointing out, he had an MMA fight before and lost to gecko
    ....but he was nowhere near his physical prime and had fought very sporadically in general for a quite a few years prior, and was basically retired by this time
    so I highly doubt he made the most of what he really could for his MMA debut.....especially against a beast submission artist like sudo

    Another thing I'd like to point out about dekkers to anyone that's starts looking him up and researching the guy.....dont just go to Wikipedia or wherever and look up his win/loss record, cause while it is very impressive at like 190- 30...it still doesn't accurately reflect how good he was, seeing as foreigners were rarely given the nod with decisions regardless of performance and that he used his fist so much (which is looked down upon in traditional muay Thai scoring versus knees/elbows/shin and the other "surfaces")

    He also lost quite a few matches to unfortunate circumstances like cuts and some freak injuries

     
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  11. Twelve75 Black Belt

    Twelve75
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    5 to 10 years training ? do me a favour,wouldn't even need half that time to be a contender,we're not talking about an elite level sport here.
     
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  12. Grijswaarde Black Belt

    Grijswaarde
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    I don't think so.. during his prime there were no weight classes, but even if there were, at that time BJJ and wrestling were dominating muay thai.

    Ramon might've adapted to that a bit, but also at that time the knowledge of the ground game was very very basic in Holland. He might've went abroad to train that, but basically no Dutch fighter did that in the early 90's except maybe Rutten.

    So i guess not. Still one of the best fighters that ever lived imo. RIP Ramon!
     
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  13. Which Doctor The Hurricane Irma/Maria/Helms Belt

    Which Doctor
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    If he drew Horenstein, Hackney, and Vaarlens in a tourney, then sure.

    Any version of Ferrozzo destroys him.
     
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  14. Typrune Goatley Brown Belt

    Typrune Goatley
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    If he were to fight a D1 wrestler or a BJJ black belt he is going to need more than a few years of grappling to survive.

    That was what made Cro Cop so special. He was an unbelievable physical specimen. Extremely strong, quick and explosive. Mirko also trained with Werdum to learn the ground game. Mirko learned takedown defense and sub defense extremely quick, quicker than any other kickboxer that has transitioned to MMA. I doubt Dekkers could learn so quick.

    Even if Ramon trained with world class grapplers it would still be a few years before he could beat somebody with 20 years grappling experience.
     
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  15. Twelve75 Black Belt

    Twelve75
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    he could do anything McGregor has done,and he seems to be doing ok.
     
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  16. Typrune Goatley Brown Belt

    Typrune Goatley
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    McGregor never had to face a BJ Penn or a Sean Sherk or a Matt Hughes.

    You really think only 3 years of training a sprawl and ground defense are going to be enough to stop takedowns and ground control from those guys? No. That is why i said 5 to 10 years.

    Conor fought a featherweight 2 week notice Chad Mendes who easily took him down and beat him up. At that point Conor was already 8+ years in his MMA career and he was still easily outgrappled until the no camp Chad fatigued. Imagine what a full camp Sherk or Khabib would have done.

    You are seriously underestimating the wrestlers and grappler's abilities. Have you trained with D1 wrestlers and BJJ black belts? I do almost every day. It takes a lot more than a couple years to be able to defend yourself against them.
     
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  17. Twelve75 Black Belt

    Twelve75
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    Mendes? Didn't he get tko'd ?

    Dekkers,could've done whatever Conor has,only better.....
     
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  18. Typrune Goatley Brown Belt

    Typrune Goatley
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    Mendes took that fight on two weeks notice. He was manhandling Conor until he gassed out. Conor already had 8+ years of MMA and grappling at that point.

    Now imagine Ramon or Conor with less than 5 years grappling being matched up with a pre-USADA Sean Sherk. Sherk had the cardio to go 25 minutes. Sherk only ever lost to BJ Penn, Matt Hughes, Edgar and GSP. Those were other great great grapplers that could shut down Sherk's game. Conor or Ramon would likely get ragdolled by Sherk if they had less than 5 years grappling.

    I like Conor but he has only fought one wrestler, Chad, who was out of shape and fought on two week notice.

    Conor beat Alvarez who is a decent MMA grappler but Conor had already been in the MMA game for 9 years at that point.

    You can't just jump into the top 10 with only 2 or 3 years of working a sprawl.

    Cro Cop and GSP are the most rare of cases to learn that quickly. Look how long it took for Mark Hunt to learn takedown defense. Mark can sprawl on some guys in the division but he will never be able to stop Stipe or Brock's takedowns.

    Wonderboy Thompson stopped Jonny Hendricks' takedowns but WB already had 6 or 7 years grappling by that point. Woodley was able to ground him a few times though.

    My point is these strikers MIGHT be able to beat 1 or 2 guys in the top 10 that have weak takedowns but against the majority of top 10 ranked fighters in any division you need about 5 years minimum of grappling training to survive.

    It is absolutely necessary when fighting people who have been on the mat for 20+ years
     
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  19. TotesMagotes White Belt

    TotesMagotes
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    Conor would take his head clean off.
    Just kidding
     
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  20. mon Purple Belt

    mon
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    Agree except for kabab, my money's on McGregor as khabibs standup is that appalling but obviously that's opinion.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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