Cotto or Shane, who do you rate higher AT?

XThe GreatestX said:
Winkys one of my fav's for sure, theres no denying he was a bad man at 154.

My issue with how it relates to Shane is that Winky pretty much embarrassed him. Go watch those fights. Seriously there not competitive from the first round on. Probably not as bad as the Forest losses in the sense that Winky is an actually atg but still. Purely non competitive. And meh i dont buy that he was 135 or at most 147. He had success at 147 and 154. He wasn't really undersized in any fight i can remember. Maybe im wrong though
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imo, winky wouldve embarassed 147 floyd as well. big difference between eight ounce and ten ounce gloves. also, mosely was admittedly on the cream at 154 in the dlh rematch where most eveyone still thought that he lost

no shame in a ww, whose best years were at 135, losing to a 154 that would school every lmw today.

prime winky would just toy with canelo
 
eh, Shane had some success at 154 but I never felt it was the right weight for him. He was tough enough and knew how to fight Mexican fighters, which were his best wins at 154, but thats all he really was at 154- tough and willing to exchange.
 
Close call, but overall I'd give Cotto a very slight edge. Cotto has better losses... and I don't count the Margarito using cement hands fight against Cotto. Mosley was more durable and flashy, but overall Cotto was more consistent.
 
cottagecheesefan said:
Yea, I don't disagree with that all the way. I just feel Shane's prime was 10 years before that and prob should have retired after the Winky fights. Where as that was when Cotto just hit his stride, and it was still really close. But SSM did go on the destroy Marg, so w/e.

Shane was also busted for PEDs, where Cotto has not been, so that can be a factor also.
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I'd say Mosley was the better fighter but it's hard not to acknowledge his PED use.
 
I give it to Cotto. Their records are pretty close. Shane's run at 135 was great, along with wins against Oscar, Tony, and Vargas. Cotto had a very similar run at LWW, then wins over Mosley himself, Judah, and Margarito (eventually).

The thing that sets them apart I think is Cotto's late-career resurgence after it looked like he was past his best, snatching the crown from the lineal middleweight champion. And personally, also the way he lost a couple of fights compared to Shane. Miguel fights until he can't anymore, Shane decided that a few fights of his ended in the early rounds and he was just there to survive until the scores were read. He wanted very little to do with fighting Pacquiao after he got knocked down.
 
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cottagecheesefan said:
False. Cotto beat Margaret after Mosley beat him and Pac put his career in the grave.

Cotto got a TKO due to Marg not being able to see out of the eye Pac destroyed. He was getting to Cotto late, and wasn't really hurt, outside the eye.

Completely stupid to say it is the same Marg, let alone prime Marg.
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I actually agree that Tony was starting to get to Cotto when Smoger stopped the fight. I'm not so sure he would have been able to get the job done, considering how late in the fight it was but it was competitive for those last few rounds.
 
quincy k said:
imo, winky wouldve embarassed 147 floyd as well. big difference between eight ounce and ten ounce gloves. also, mosely was admittedly on the cream at 154 in the dlh rematch where most eveyone still thought that he lost

no shame in a ww, whose best years were at 135, losing to a 154 that would school every lmw today.

prime winky would just toy with canelo
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Maybe. I dunno Floyds pretty good lol. I wouldnt have been surprised if Winky had won,

Yeah he was on the cream. Hard to say how long he used it for.
As i stated earlier I think Shane's LW run is ludicrously overrated. He beat Jesse James Leija who a year earlier had been stopped by a 96 year old Azumah Nelson and Golden Johnson......

If hes an ATG at LW, Adrien Broner is an ATG at SFW too than
 
XThe GreatestX said:
Maybe. I dunno Floyds pretty good lol. I wouldnt have been surprised if Winky had won,

Yeah he was on the cream. Hard to say how long he used it for.
As i stated earlier I think Shane's LW run is ludicrously overrated. He beat Jesse James Leija who a year earlier had been stopped by a 96 year old Azumah Nelson and Leavander Johnson......

If hes an ATG at LW, Adrien Broner is an ATG at SFW too than
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its the way he dominated his 135 opponents and the fact that he moved up and was somewhat succesful at 147

if golovkin moved to 168 and beat degale and ramirez then i would consider gennady an atg at 160 even though his record does not support it through no fault of his own.

i rank hopkins as an atg at 160, even though his record is not that great(his best 160 wins against 147s), because of what he did against 168s and 175s

147 floyd would have little if any chance against prime 154 winky
 
quincy k said:
its the way he dominated his 135 opponents and the fact that he moved up and was somewhat succesful at 147

if golovkin moved to 168 and beat degale and ramirez then i would consider gennady an atg at 160 even though his record does not support it through no fault of his own.

i rank hopkins as an atg at 160, even though his record is not that great(his best 160 wins against 147s), because of what he did against 168s and 175s
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Not sure I agree with that. His work at 135 wasn't anything special. His work at 147/154 was. He beat some good fighters and had some great fights.

I cant put him in their with the ATG lightweights because he doesnt have great wins at the weight. I can't say he beat De La Hoya at 147 so that counts towards his LW run.

Hopkins beat Tito and Oscar at MW so that counts for something. Beat Pavlik although that was at a catchweight ( or was it at 168?). So maybe you can count that if you wanted to. Stopped Glen Johnson, and JDJ. Has some other wins like Holmes/Joppy/Vanderpool that are decent. Did all that at MW

I consider Bhop an ATG MW. I dont consider Shane an ATG LW. And just to clarify this is resume I'm talking about here. Obviously Shane is an ATG fighter
 
and I dunno if you can count Tito as just a 147. He did his best work forsure but at MW/JMW he did good
 
shane is no ATG at 135. Had he beaten nazarov and johnston then he'd have a case, but otherwise, he's just a guy with a bunch of dope looking KOs against stiffs.
 
ironfist05 said:
shane is no ATG at 135. Had he beaten nazarov and johnston then he'd have a case, but otherwise, he's just a guy with a bunch of dope looking KOs against stiffs.
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135 is a pretty deep division historically, so no he's not a great at the weight. His run at the weight was pretty impressive though.
 
Seano said:
135 is a pretty deep division historically, so no he's not a great at the weight. His run at the weight was pretty impressive though.
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yeah, I'll grant it was impressive, just because of how he looked. Kind of like GGG right now, looks impressive, but lacking in quality names.
 
ironfist05 said:
yeah, I'll grant it was impressive, just because of how he looked. Kind of like GGG right now, looks impressive, but lacking in quality names.
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I think his lack of competition at 135 is overstated. Leija, Molina and Holiday are all respectable wins.
 
I have nothing to contribute other than what's been said already except Shane's uber stiff neck always irked me for some reason lmao.
 
Seano said:
I think his lack of competition at 135 is overstated. Leija, Molina and Holiday are all respectable wins.
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ehhhh, they aren't bad, but they aren't what I would be bragging about, certainly not when he had Johnston and Nazarov as alternatives
 
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