Connor's Coach's Take on Prepping for Khabib

[jack36767]

Isn't it the same thing just less drastic?

No, it’s simply going back to a neutral position and having more chances to score. Not losing

 

[nefti]

I believe he means losing position is getting put from a neutral or advantageous position into a bad position. Many people, including myself, do not feel that going from a good position to a neutral one is losing.

I guess its like going from almost a pin back to a ride in wrestling. You are not loosing per say, you are regressing though. You put all that efort and you have to start over again.

 

[nefti]

It would've been irrelevant. Realistically, what could Conor learn in 10 weeks that would help him turn the corner? Kavanagh's take in the first ten mins was precisely what I thought they would do if it was just training within that timeframe (ie not the GSP disappear for years to pick up new skills).

He was going to be put on his back. Training to get up AND to strike against a guy hell bent on taking him down was the key. I thought he played the first almost as perfect as he could actually

Connor had more than 10 weeks to prepare

 

[jack36767]

I guess its like going from almost a pin back to a ride in wrestling. You are not loosing per say, you are regressing though. You put all that efort and you have to start over again.

What’s wrong with effort. This is the fundamental problem with how bjj looks at wrestling. The precense of effort does not mean lack of technique or that something is a regression

 

[nefti]

What’s wrong with effort. This is the fundamental problem with how bjj looks at wrestling. The precense of effort does not mean lack of technique or that something is a regression

It is uneconomic, correct me if im wrong but do wrestling coaches tell their atheletes to almost get the pin and let the guy out?

 

[ArtemV]

Kavanagh seems like a smart guy, but ego seems to be a problem here. If you can't get along with guys who may help you, how can you improve? I have taken techniques and learned from many guys I dislike in the past.

 

[rmongler]

I guess its like going from almost a pin back to a ride in wrestling. You are not loosing per say, you are regressing though. You put all that efort and you have to start over again.

Much like passing and letting them reguard so you can pass again, or mounting then going to kob so you can mount again, getting hooks in, then going half out, then putting them back in...

 

[nefti]

Much like passing and letting them reguard so you can pass again, or mounting then going to kob so you can mount again, getting hooks in, then going half out, then putting them back in...

Different scoring system very flawed analogy . A better one would be to take down your oponent, choose not to pin, let back up, then take down again.

Again one would do this if there is a clear wide gap in skill level. A specific situation.

 

[nefti]

I dont see conor being able to do much better defending takedowns , kabib is known to destroy high level college wrestlers.

 

[yetanother]

Much like passing and letting them reguard so you can pass again, or mounting then going to kob so you can mount again, getting hooks in, then going half out, then putting them back in...

Those are bad BJJ strategies. Sure you might be forced to do something like that in a rare situations where you are loosing by a huge margin but the high level approach when you have a point lead is to aim for a dominant position and safely work for a finish forcing your opponent to defend that instead of raking up more points with stupid schemes.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Just to clear any confusion, who is the best MMA grappler ever? Maia or Khabib?

Demian Maia. Obviously he's not the best wrestler, but once you hit the mat, I believe him to be the best.

 

[rmongler]

Different scoring system very flawed analogy . A better one would be to take down your oponent, choose not to pin, let back up, then take down again.

Again one would do this if there is a clear wide gap in skill level. A specific situation.

They're both and all functional consequents of 'static' scoring where reward only comes from achievement of a superior position and not maintenance of a superior position.

 

[jack36767]

It is uneconomic, correct me if im wrong but do wrestling coaches tell their atheletes to almost get the pin and let the guy out?

No.. and you are misconstruing it. I never said “let” obviously if you can choke out, finish, or pin someone, do it. But when riding someone, to actually pull off a match ending move requires you to take risks and when trying to finish someone halfway tough, finishing is not a guarantee.

If my kid doesn’t get the pin.. he doesn’t or shouldn’t consider that a “loss” or really a regression. It’s simply another opportunity to score more points or get another chance to pin them again. If you consider it a regression or loss you’ll lose and get tired quicker

And it’s been pointed out before, the most “efficient” as in least energy used is actually not always the most actual efficient or effective overall based on results

 

[yetanother]

If my kid doesn’t get the pin.. he doesn’t or shouldn’t consider that a “loss” or really a regression. It’s simply another opportunity to score more points or get another chance to pin them again. If you consider it a regression or loss you’ll lose and get tired quicker

Isn't the mind set a bit different in wrestling? You can get stood up there by the ref or by the end of period while in BJJ if you have a dominant position like side control/mount/back you are most likely winning and the big priority is to keep it and work for the sub if the opponent tries to open up to escape?

 

[andrewm2211]

Much like passing and letting them reguard so you can pass again, or mounting then going to kob so you can mount again, getting hooks in, then going half out, then putting them back in...

Why would anyone ever do that. Pass a guard and let them reguard. I feel like if you were competing against someone and they skill gap was that large that you wouldn’t be worried about getting swept in their guard at all, you should be able to sub them after the pass. Letting them re establish just exposes you to danger

 

[yetanother]

Why would anyone ever do that. Pass a guard and let them reguard. I feel like if you were competing against someone and they skill gap was that large that you wouldn’t be worried about getting swept in their guard at all, you should be able to sub them after the pass. Letting them re establish just exposes you to danger

Two reasons would be either you are down need 3 points badly so you give them a crappy half guard with just the foot back and pass that or a inherently low level strategy where you subs and dominant positions suck so you want to waste time and stall and give them bad guard position back.

Or the rare super high level case where you are Rafa Mendes and you are recording a highlight videos and you need your 50 points worth of cool moves.

 

[Foppa21]

In 10 weeks he could've specifically trained getting dominated on his back. Its not necessarily learning new skills so much as it is sharpening and honing in on skills he already has. More importantly it would've trained his muscles and nervous system to be familiar with that position. And finally, it would be helped him keep calm and conserve resources better. A lot of getting tired in a fight comes from the anxiety of getting shut down. When your opponent has you in a disadvantageous position and your attempts at turning the tide are unsuccessful. Connor already has the skills and strength to get out from bottom, but training a whole camp geared toward being thoroughly dominated in that position will only make those skills more useful.

Correct. And as I alluded to in my previous post, I felt Conor did quite well in the first. Compared to a lot of people getting up after the first round vs Khabib, he looked rather fresh.

The big right hand in the second changed everything and as you said, from where on in, panic set in.

He has the skills to get out of bottom, but does he have them against a opponent the quality of Khabib. No one's cracked that yet.

 

[yetanother]

Saw the fight, looking at his guard looks like Conor needs a full time BJJ coach instead of just flying star struck Dillon in for a bit.

 

[jack36767]

Isn't the mind set a bit different in wrestling? You can get stood up there by the ref or by the end of period while in BJJ if you have a dominant position like side control/mount/back you are most likely winning and the big priority is to keep it and work for the sub if the opponent tries to open up to escape?

I’m saying in reference to mma mostly

 

[Ishaq]

Saw the fight, looking at his guard looks like Conor needs a full time BJJ coach instead of just flying star struck Dillon in for a bit.

He needs a wrestling coach in Ben Askren. Not a jiu jitsu coach.