Confessions of a mittologist

You guys are far more competent than I am so excuse my comment but I get the feeling "mitts are not needed" is kind of the newest trend you are following.

I dont critic that you can do a great training without mitts but the "proof" videos are carefully selected and there are tons of world class fighters out there to "proof" the opposite. Mitts are a fantastic way of a coach engaging with his student in a 1 on 1 and working on a lot of things you all know. And thats the point: its time consuming and by that expensive in investment. But its just something different than a partner drill with annother boxer. A great coach will make it a great lesson you dont get any other way.

The russian boxer video. Yeah sure they are not doing 1 on 1 mitt work but you can bet the elite will get to that to smoothen things in with their coach. Doesnt mean partner drills arent great just that there is a reason why you have this 1 on 1 work at the higher levels.

I may go visit the Chemiepokal this year in Germany which has a very high level. We will also have the Cuban National Team as guests. Its a very relaxed athmosphere and if its possible I will ask some about it but my guess is they do pad work as do the russians.

I just think that working in absolutes as "thats not my thing" is fine as it works for you based on your experience but its beneficial to not think in absolutes.
 
@AndyMaBobs

Isn't what a said? Are my english so bad they don't make sense or did you put me on ignore? WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE SUCH TREATMENT? Does the rest of you can see me? Are you all blocking me? Am i dead? Hello? Anybody?

My bad dude - I have a habit of not reading a full thread before I reply haha
 
When designing drills or situational games for finer focus on some specific capacity, one of the most important things to keep in mind is make sure the criteria you are using do not inadvertently end up also drilling bad habits at the same time.

I can give you a perfect example; if you hear the words 'pummeling drill', what do you think of? To most people in or around the fight game, it might conjure images of two athletes leaning chest to chest, taking turns swimming arms under each other. It looks nice and flowy to watch, it's something easy and straightforward for two people to do that gives a feeling of doing work, but then stop and think about it; if it were an actual match you were in, what would you have accomplished? In doing the drill you are basically conditioning yourself to give up an underhook, as a side-effect, which is antiethical to the whole intention behind the drill, which would be getting better at improving position into a superior tie-up.

That's what i can't help but think about when i look at the way many people do mitts: "You're conditioning punches to miss peoples heads on purpose."
 
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When designing drills or situational games for finer focus on some specific capacity, one of the most important things to keep in mind is make sure the criteria you are using do not inadvertently end up also drilling bad habits at the same time.

I'll give you a perfect example; if you hear the words 'pummeling drill', what do you think of? To most people in or around the fight game, it might conjure images of two athletes leaning chest to chest, taking turns swimming arms under each other. It looks nice and flowy to watch, it's something easy and straightforward for two people to do that gives a feeling of doing work, but then stop and think about it; if it were an actual match you were in, what would you have accomplished? In doing the drill you are basically conditioning yourself to give up an underhook, as a side-effect, which is antiethical to the whole intention behind the drill, which would be getting better at improving position into a superior tie-up.

That's what i can't help but think about when i look at the way many people do mitts: "You're conditioning punches to miss peoples heads on purpose."

This is what I don't like about them too. I like to hold the mitt as close to my face as possible and just trust the fighter not to KO me.

It's funny you mention pummelling because I don't like that either - you give your opponent more favourable position in the clinch, and if you have a competent opponent, you're in trouble.
 
. I've taken a page out of Andy Thomson's book of using the pads and stepping away from kicks to make the student kick through more. For me pad work is more for if I'm drilling something that I will likely need protection for, like knee strikes.


I was lucky enough to do pads with Andy once, guys unreal. Under appreciated in the MT world.
Yes it can be done without pads.
I dont see why you would want to remove pads though. What is there to gain or benefit by removing them?

This seems pretty hipster to draw a line in the sand and say "pads are so mainstream!".
The other end is that if you have good pad holders you could work without a heavy bag.

Refusing to do pads is not going to make you any better, it just means you are not doing that teaching method anymore. If all the learning is covered by other drills and pad work, perfect. Padwork, bag work, drills, etc are no the goals, they are training aids to improvement.
My opinion is that hitting pads is fun so fuck it lets go smash some.
 
That's what i can't help but think about when i look at the way many people do mitts: "You're conditioning punches to miss peoples heads on purpose."

I'm not sure about that. I see it more like you are conditioning people to hit a specific target. Doesn't matter if it's a head, mitts, or gloves... It's just a target. During fight day, the target changes, but not the objective and neither the way. I don't see why it would be a problem... But then again, it's about boxing and punches, everything is strange/complicated with you guys.

My bad dude - I have a habit of not reading a full thread before I reply haha

That's not very professional... And it makes me question my utility in here...

not a word, coach.

You're both been mean... Is that because that one time a said that MT is better than whatever you guys do? It's not like you guys are serious about you combat sport anyway. You do it to past time. Otherwise you would do MT... which is better than whatever you guys do.
 
I was lucky enough to do pads with Andy once, guys unreal. Under appreciated in the MT world.

That is awesome. I hope to train with him one day when I'm not a broke ass bitch. His style of padwork is very unique, I think it focuses on all the right things
 
This is what I don't like about them too. I like to hold the mitt as close to my face as possible and just trust the fighter not to KO me.

It's funny you mention pummelling because I don't like that either - you give your opponent more favourable position in the clinch, and if you have a competent opponent, you're in trouble.


I think a lot of 'infinity drills' end up suffering from similar problems; in order for them to 'reset' and keep flowing, you basically are getting practice in giving up and going backwards after gaining an advantage, rather than getting practice in solidifying position once you gain an advantage.
 
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My issue with mit/padwork is with the typical north merican structure of classes. In the end its a shit padholder unless I get a private 1 on 1.

You get the newer one who holds it where its like I'm prepping against a 3 headed dragon, and is slow. Shit, I was working on reacting and he got lost and took 1 sec to bring it back up. Had to switch partners after.

Then you get the ones who just try too hard to turn it into a tabata / conditioning sessional when my objective was to work speed or accuracy.

Personally I'm big on partner drills and bagwork.
 
Yeah I agree with you.

Theres probably a 100 more ways to work guys without utilizing mitts as well. I just dont see why you would "want" to remove mitts from a program, unless as I had stated the class is to large for everyone to be worked with individually. Holding mitts for 10 guys is time consuming for sure. I can understand doing things this way for a class, but for a fighter, I wouldnt agree with preparing guys and sending them off to fight without getting that 1 on 1 padwork, in combination of course with sparring and all the other things that come with preparing for a fight.

it's not about " wanting" it's about creating an environment that fosters improvement.

I've found that pads don't give us something that other drills can't. so I asked myself," why am I keeping pads in my system?" am I saying not to use pads? No, I am not but when it comes to doing more with less ( 80/20) partner drills beat out pad work.

partner drills
basic conditioning
light sparring
full sparring

are the only items that I wouldn't take out of a boxing program everything else is just extra
 
I was lucky enough to do pads with Andy once, guys unreal. Under appreciated in the MT world.


This seems pretty hipster to draw a line in the sand and say "pads are so mainstream!".
The other end is that if you have good pad holders you could work without a heavy bag.

Refusing to do pads is not going to make you any better, it just means you are not doing that teaching method anymore. If all the learning is covered by other drills and pad work, perfect. Padwork, bag work, drills, etc are no the goals, they are training aids to improvement.
My opinion is that hitting pads is fun so fuck it lets go smash some.

Im not sure what you mean..... but yes pads are mainstream, meaning they are a primary staple of training for the majority of coaches and fighters out there..........generally speaking..... Sure there are guys that dont use pads, but that is outside of the norm.

Regardless of whats normal or not.........we all know the benefits of padwork, from timing, distance, reaction, muscle memory, freestyle padwork is simulating a fight/sparring, etc. Now there are plenty of other tools and training methods out there that can do and work these same things, sure you can remove padwork and replace it with something else and do just fine, or even great. But I dont really see a motive for wanting to remove it.

bagwork + padwork + partner drills..... is better than bagwork + partner driils.........any sort of training combination you can come up with + padwork, imo is better than the same training combination - padwork. anything plus padwork is better than without IMO.

The only benefit I can see of removing 1 on 1 padwork would be because of the high student to coach ratio where the coach simply cant work with 20 guys 1 on 1. Which in result has contributed to the whole watering down of MT in america, of the program of students holding pads for each other and the coach walking around correcting them. Which brings up a whole nother can of worms about the guy holding pads, it being an art in itself and if the guy knows what hes doing or not. This has most recently transitioned into guys doing partner drills with their gloves duane ludgwig style, which I think is good. Its sort of solves the problem of coach not being able to hold pads for everyone, and everyone not having to hold pads for eachother, but the pads are basically just replaced with gloves but I do think partner dutch style drills are a great thing.

The thais are the best in the world at MT. What we dont see them do is "water" it down as mentioned. Rather than have a high student to coach ratio, they have more coaches, thus allowing everyone to get the 1 on 1 padwork that is needed. Padwork is a huge part of the "general" training routine of MT. Here we can see the basic blueprint for MT training, sure things can be tweaked here and there but this is a pretty standard routine for most gyms more or less.

TRAINING ROUTINE
Morning : 6am-8am

– 6 a.m The morning session starts with a 10-12 kilometer run.

– Pad session with trainer 3-4 rounds of 5 minute duration with one round focusing on boxing and elbows only.

– Bag work 4 rounds of 5 minute duration.

– General conditioning work such as pull-ups, 300 sit-ups

Afternoon :3.30pm-6pm

– 3 p.m skipping for 30 minutes

– Pad work with trainer 5-6 rounds of 5 minute duration with 1-2 rounds focusing on boxing and elbows only.

– Bagwork 5 rounds of 5 minute duration

– Technical sparing 3 rounds of 5 minute duration

– 30 minutes of Clinch and knee work

– Light jog, 2-3 kilometers

– 300 knees on heavy bag and 100 kicks

– General conditioning work such as pull-ups and 300 sit-ups.

basically pads/clinch/spar


one could make a comparison to shadow boxing, theres alot of guys that dont do it much at all, theres other guys that do it for several rounds daily. There are benefits to shadowboxing, those same benefits can be worked in other aspects of training as well. So should we remove shadowboxing? We could if we wanted to. Out of all the things to cut from a program pads would be one of the last things to go for me.

Regarding MT vs Boxing, i think pads are slightly higher importance in MT vs Boxing but still I think a major part of boxing as well.

if you dont already follow bupas coach on IG check it out. Really great boxing padwork done from this guy. Its quite obvious to see the benefits of padwork here, the next closest thing to padwork would be partner drills, and although similar and many of the same things can be worked. a program of partner drills + padwork would be better than without IMO........... and that is essentially how i train for fights conditioning, shadow boxing, padwork, partner drills, clinch/spar.

hhttps://www.instagram.com/p/Bi3-ynkl_T9/?hl=en&taken-by=bupascoach
 
it's not about " wanting" it's about creating an environment that fosters improvement.

I've found that pads don't give us something that other drills can't. so I asked myself," why am I keeping pads in my system?" am I saying not to use pads? No, I am not but when it comes to doing more with less ( 80/20) partner drills beat out pad work.

partner drills
basic conditioning
light sparring
full sparring

are the only items that I wouldn't take out of a boxing program everything else is just extra

yeah i agree with that.
 
My issue with mit/padwork is with the typical north merican structure of classes. In the end its a shit padholder unless I get a private 1 on 1.

You get the newer one who holds it where its like I'm prepping against a 3 headed dragon, and is slow. Shit, I was working on reacting and he got lost and took 1 sec to bring it back up. Had to switch partners after.

Then you get the ones who just try too hard to turn it into a tabata / conditioning sessional when my objective was to work speed or accuracy.

Personally I'm big on partner drills and bagwork.

On the upside at least you know you're set when King Ghidorah comes along...

king-ghidorah-godzilla-mothra-rodan.gif
 
I think I remember Sinister mentioned about partner drills before,

Cardio and Conditioning: Preparing the body for a combat environment and in some instances like skipping, to help with coordinator.

Heavy bag work: To develop power and conditioning and some technical aspects.

Partner Drills: To develop technical aspects, movement, timing, body dynamics, muscle memory...etc

Shadow boxing: Technical aspects of bringing movement and technique together and to help with muscle memory....

Sparing: To help bring all of the above together in a live environment.

You don't really need pad work, it's all covered in the above, it's not realistic.
would double like if i could. definitely follows my beliefs about boxing.
 
I don't understand everyone saying distance management is only developed on the mitts. When the bag starts moving you have to move with it/move around it in order to correctly throw your next combo, how is that not distance management?
people usually learn pretty shitty distance control using pads, unless it's with a good pad holder. sparing is the be all and end all when it comes to learning distance control. hours and hours of drills and light to medium sparring, is by far the best way to learn and refine the skills of boxing.
 
You guys are far more competent than I am so excuse my comment but I get the feeling "mitts are not needed" is kind of the newest trend you are following.

I dont critic that you can do a great training without mitts but the "proof" videos are carefully selected and there are tons of world class fighters out there to "proof" the opposite. Mitts are a fantastic way of a coach engaging with his student in a 1 on 1 and working on a lot of things you all know. And thats the point: its time consuming and by that expensive in investment. But its just something different than a partner drill with annother boxer. A great coach will make it a great lesson you dont get any other way.

The russian boxer video. Yeah sure they are not doing 1 on 1 mitt work but you can bet the elite will get to that to smoothen things in with their coach. Doesnt mean partner drills arent great just that there is a reason why you have this 1 on 1 work at the higher levels.

I may go visit the Chemiepokal this year in Germany which has a very high level. We will also have the Cuban National Team as guests. Its a very relaxed athmosphere and if its possible I will ask some about it but my guess is they do pad work as do the russians.

I just think that working in absolutes as "thats not my thing" is fine as it works for you based on your experience but its beneficial to not think in absolutes.

If anything it's mitts that are the trend. They've only been around as you know them for almost 50 year's, compare that to how long boxing has been around. Muay Thai has been around much longer than the popular equipment.

How were champions built before that?

Also, you claim you're not quite as competent as some of us in here and yet your tone is quite condescending, accusatory, and presumptuous. There's a lot of polite insinuation in there, but you can rest assured no one here with a credible reputation in their respective sport stands anything to gain by bullshitting you on an Internet forum.
 
P.S. - Visit the CPI gym in Germany. Talk to Florin Catuna and his wife about their trip to Havana. They took their Russian Dima with them:



Here's Dima sparring at my gym with my fighter, ya know, just in case you think I made this stuff up:

 
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