Confederate Statues In Baltimore Taken Down Overnight

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I don't think people understand that these things aren't being destroyed. They're being moved to museums.

I think that there's an extent to they also don't care; The affront was the removal.

 

[shockaholic12]

I think that there's an extent to they also don't care; The affront was the removal.

99% just saw something they could completely spazz over and act like victims but don't actually care about the monuments enough to erect or upkeep them privately.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

99% just saw something they could completely spazz over and act like victims but don't actually care about the monuments enough to erect or upkeep them privately.

I'm starting to think we need to, ya know, MOVE THE FUCK ON as a nation and stop worshipping the past.
Remember history, yes, but it's time to move on ffs.

 

[lfd0311]

99% just saw something they could completely spazz over and act like victims but don't actually care about the monuments enough to erect or upkeep them privately.

I mean... That can easily be said about both sides

 

[lfd0311]

I'm starting to think we need to, ya know, MOVE THE FUCK ON as a nation and stop worshipping the past.
Remember history, yes, but it's time to move on ffs.

That's where we disagree. I think remebering the Confederacy and thier history is massively important. For some reason the Left seems to want to erase it from history. That's a dangerous thing to do.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

That's where we disagree. I think remebering the Confederacy and thier history is massively important. For some reason the Left seems to want to erase it from history. That's a dangerous thing to do.

No no, I don't mean forget as in "ignore history", I mean forget as in "assiduously study the history but know it, don't worship it".
I'm sure everyone involved would want to know that the country settled these issues long ago.

 

[Rational Poster]

That's where we disagree. I think remebering the Confederacy and thier history is massively important. For some reason the Left seems to want to erase it from history. That's a dangerous thing to do.

Lee disagrees with you though.

 

[shockaholic12]

I mean... That can easily be said about both sides

There's no reason any tax dollars should go towards upkeeping these monuments. These men accomplished joining a slave obsessed rebel political faction and losing a war. It's a waste of money.

There's no reason a black person should have to pay for these and they certainty shouldn't have to pass monuments to people who fought for the system that kidnapped their ancestors, forced them into labor camps for life, tortured them, committed cultural genocide on them, and murdered them.

So that's one person claiming to be a victim.

The other side is throwing a tantrum over something like "everyone will forget the civil way without these big stone actions figures to the losers on government property". It's called a museum dummies. Build it if you need it.

Which actually has a leg to stand on?

Would conservatives be happy if we replaced all these monuments with monuments of slaves? So we could remember right?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

There's no reason any tax dollars should go towards upkeeping these monuments. These men accomplished joining a slave obsessed rebel political faction and losing a war. It's a waste of money.

There's no reason a black person should have to pay for these and they certainty shouldn't have to pass monuments to people who fought for the system that kidnapped their ancestors, forced them into labor camps for life, tortured them, committed cultural genocide on them, and murdered them.

So that's one person claiming to be a victim.

The other side is throwing a tantrum over something like "everyone will forget the civil way without these big stone actions figures to the losers on government property". It's called a museum dummies. Build it if you need it.

Which actually has a leg to stand on?

Would conservatives be happy if we replaced all these monuments with monuments of slaves? So we could remember right?

Yah, if I were a black American, I wouldn't want my tax money going to upkeep statues glorifying confederate soldiers or leaders.

 

[shockaholic12]

That's where we disagree. I think remebering the Confederacy and thier history is massively important. For some reason the Left seems to want to erase it from history. That's a dangerous thing to do.

Remembering them is one thing. Building monuments to celebrate them on tax payer money is another thing.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

- Abraham Lincoln. Oh shit wait no it's the VP of the confederacy, my bad.
<puh-lease75>

Oh, what's next, you want to bring up how Hillary said gays should not marry and then later said they should, when it was politically convenient? Bro, these are politicians and TIME and CONTEX are everything - what was happening at the beginning of the war, not the end, that is key. Here is what Lincoln originally said, as we are questioning the reasons for the war happening, and this is what Lincoln said;

1. On the expansion of slavery:

Lincoln said:

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ...

2. On shipping blacks back to Africa:

Lincoln said:

In the language of Mr. Jefferson, uttered many years ago, "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly; and in their places be, pari passu [on an equal basis], filled up by free white laborers."

3. On outlawing slavery in the south (before the rebellion).

Lincoln said:

I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

4. On equality:

Lincoln said:

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.

5. On inter-racial marriage:

Lincoln said:

Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.



Your Hero literally wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa rather than having them integrate if he could not keep slavery going, and found the prospect of living beside them to be utterly repulsive. Infact, he did not even think they were human, thus why he did not grant them full constitutional rights when it was politically convenient to do so. Emancipation was purely politically motivated and was an after thought -- Don't bite the Hollywood BS and look at what the man said, don't cherry pick out of context. His views on the African Race are more extreme than anyone you would have found at Saturday's past rally.

Time to take down the Lincoln Memorial. We can't have racist and oppressive people having statues and others having their ripped down.


p.s. @lfd0311

 

[Gregolian]

Not sure where to put this but I am curious where the line should be drawn.

People want to pull down Robert E Lee statues and such because he fought for the Confederacy right? Didn't he used to own the land in Arlington that Arlington National Cemetery is on now? Like, he couldn't pay the taxes because the Federal government wanted him to pay it in person so he asked his wife to pay them and they wouldn't take the money from her so they started burying Union soldiers there.

I wonder if some of these people wanting to pull down his statues even know that and if they'd want Arlington to be torn up and transferred places or some such ridiculous thing.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

Oh, what's next, you want to bring up how Hillary said gays should not marry and then later said they should, when it was politically convenient? Bro, these are politicians and TIME and CONTEX are everything - what was happening at the beginning of the war, not the end, that is key. Here is what Lincoln originally said, as we are questioning the reasons for the war happening, and this is what Lincoln said;

1. On the expansion of slavery:

Lincoln said:

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ...

2. On shipping blacks back to Africa:

Lincoln said:

In the language of Mr. Jefferson, uttered many years ago, "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly; and in their places be, pari passu [on an equal basis], filled up by free white laborers."

3. On outlawing slavery in the south (before the rebellion).

Lincoln said:

I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

4. On equality:

Lincoln said:

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.

5. On inter-racial marriage:

Lincoln said:

Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.



Your Hero literally wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa rather than having them integrate if he could not keep slavery going, and found the prospect of living beside them to be utterly repulsive. Infact, he did not even think they were human, thus why he did not grant them full constitutional rights when it was politically convenient to do so. Emancipation was purely politically motivated and was an after thought -- Don't bite the Hollywood BS and look at what the man said, don't cherry pick out of context. His views on the African Race are more extreme than anyone you would have found at Saturday's past rally.

Time to take down the Lincoln Memorial. We can't have racist and oppressive people having statues and others having their ripped down.


p.s. @lfd0311

O these are good. could you source these?

 

[lfd0311]

No no, I don't mean forget as in "ignore history", I mean forget as in "assiduously study the history but know it, don't worship it".
I'm sure everyone involved would want to know that the country settled these issues long ago.

I think the purpose of a lot of this, especially the people who are knocking them down and destroying them of their own initiative, is to destroy history. It's not to preserve history, right or wrong. It's to create a historical narrative that they're comfortable with.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I think the purpose of a lot of this, especially the people who are knocking them down and destroying them of their own initiative, is to destroy history. It's not to preserve history, right or wrong. It's to create a historical narrative that they're comfortable with.

I assumed it was more of a direct "fuck these guys" statement, not about squashing history.

 

[leto1776]

If you were a black American, you'd most likely have bigger,actually important things to worry about.

 

[shockaholic12]

Oh, what's next, you want to bring up how Hillary said gays should not marry and then later said they should, when it was politically convenient? Bro, these are politicians and TIME and CONTEX are everything - what was happening at the beginning of the war, not the end, that is key. Here is what Lincoln originally said, as we are questioning the reasons for the war happening, and this is what Lincoln said;

1. On the expansion of slavery:

Lincoln said:

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races ... A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation, but as an immediate separation is impossible, the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together. If white and black people never get together in Kansas, they will never mix blood in Kansas ...

2. On shipping blacks back to Africa:

Lincoln said:

In the language of Mr. Jefferson, uttered many years ago, "It is still in our power to direct the process of emancipation, and deportation, peaceably, and in such slow degrees, as that the evil will wear off insensibly; and in their places be, pari passu [on an equal basis], filled up by free white laborers."

3. On outlawing slavery in the south (before the rebellion).

Lincoln said:

I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

4. On equality:

Lincoln said:

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.

5. On inter-racial marriage:

Lincoln said:

Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man.



Your Hero literally wanted to ship the blacks back to Africa rather than having them integrate if he could not keep slavery going, and found the prospect of living beside them to be utterly repulsive. Infact, he did not even think they were human, thus why he did not grant them full constitutional rights when it was politically convenient to do so. Emancipation was purely politically motivated and was an after thought -- Don't bite the Hollywood BS and look at what the man said, don't cherry pick out of context. His views on the African Race are more extreme than anyone you would have found at Saturday's past rally.

Time to take down the Lincoln Memorial. We can't have racist and oppressive people having statues and others having their ripped down.


p.s. @lfd0311

No one argued Lincoln went to war to free the slaves. It was to stop secession. It's been pointed out many times, and by confederacy itself in their articles of secession, that they seceded and were fighting mostly to make slavery a federal institution. You're making up arguments and then arguing against yourself. Like punching yourself in the face and saying I win.

Lincoln memorials are not monuments to the time he joined a slave obsessed rebel faction that lost a war, they are to his preserving of the union and later achievements such as emancipation. If Lincoln had only achieved being a confederate politician and general I would say sure. Take them down. If Lee had become president of the US, preserved the union, and written the emancipation proclamation I would say build his monument, but he didn't.
He joined the wrong cause for whatever misguided principles.

 

[lfd0311]

There's no reason any tax dollars should go towards upkeeping these monuments. These men accomplished joining a slave obsessed rebel political faction and losing a war. It's a waste of money.

There's no reason a black person should have to pay for these and they certainty shouldn't have to pass monuments to people who fought for the system that kidnapped their ancestors, forced them into labor camps for life, tortured them, committed cultural genocide on them, and murdered them.

So that's one person claiming to be a victim.

The other side is throwing a tantrum over something like "everyone will forget the civil way without these big stone actions figures to the losers on government property". It's called a museum dummies. Build it if you need it.

Which actually has a leg to stand on?

Would conservatives be happy if we replaced all these monuments with monuments of slaves? So we could remember right?

I don't disagree. Ther is no reason these things should be on Government property. They are monuments of history, nothing more. They should be in museums.

At the same time, where did this sudden outrage come from? It's seems very disingenuous to me, especially as it's mainly coming from white Liberals, and seemingly out of nowhere, over the top vitriol and rhetoric, which has become just standard practice. It's how the Left gets it's way and feels powerful and shouldn't be catered to in my opinion.

 

[djacobox372]

He had slaves, dickhead.

He may not be a symbol of racism to you, but to those on the left, HE IS.

If the majority of the people agree that Washington's relationship to slavery is distasteful enough to warrant his monuments removal, then we will.

But quit acting like that's actually happening or is anything close to what the civil war leaders represent.

People complain about re-writing history, but these monuments themselves, erected in the 20th century, were an attempt to rewrite history, and unfortunately lots of decent southeners have attached their feelings of heritage and local pride to the confederacy because they were lied to that it was about more than just slavery. It wasn't.

One only needs to read the secession letters to see what it was about, each confederate state CLEARLY outlines that slavery is the issue, and it's the ONLY issue mentioned.

This timeline is interesting, although I disagree with the assessment that the "kkk era" is what led to the monuments being erected in the 1910s, more likely the nostalgia was brought on by the funerals of confederate soldiers as they all started dying of old age.

But the blip in he 1960s... we all know what that was a response to.

 

[Goonerview]

If the majority of the people agree that Washington's relationship to slavery is distasteful enough to warrant his monuments removal, then we will.

But quit acting like that's actually happening or is anything close to what the civil war leaders represent. People complain about re-writing history, the idea that the confederacy is about southern heritage and not slavery is a rewrite of history. These monuments themselves, erected in the 20th century, were an attempt to rewrite history, and unfortunately lots of decent southeners have attached their feelings of heritage and local pride to the confederacy because they were lied to that it was about more than just slavery. It wasn't.

One only needs to read the secession letters to see what it was about, each confederate state CLEARLY outlines that slavery is the issue, and it's the ONLY issue mentioned.

I'm not that George Washington and Robert E Lee are the same, but George Washington is next in line. The Marxists won't stop demanding until they have full control.