Company that invested $425mil into PBC taking massive earnings loss.

[Diamond Jim]

Interesting article Rafael posted about Waddle & Reed, the investment firm that invested around $425 million into Haymon's PBC.

A 22 percent drop in earnings and continued outflows of investors’ dollars pushed down shares of Waddell & Reed Financial Inc. 14.4 percent Tuesday.

Shares lost $3.81 and closed at $22.69 after the morning earnings report.

The Overland Park-based mutual fund company also announced the retirement of Michael Avery, its president, who joined the company in 1981. Avery, who has been a co-manager of the asset strategy funds, will retire at the end of June. Other co-managers will continue to lead the funds after Avery retires.

Kevin Iole wrote about this in the summer when reports in the Wall St. Journal wrote on the firm.

If the money is beginning to dry up for Waddell & Reed, that would be an ominous sign for the PBC. As a new venture attempting to break into a competitive and difficult marketplace, it needs money, and lots of it, in order to succeed.

It seems inconceivable that the PBC's shows are making money on their own, at this point, and there still isn't a lot of advertiser support.

So if the well runs dry, the Wall Street Journal piece could be a sign of the beginning of the end for the PBC.

However, no one can be sure right now.

What happens if Haymon's well dries up?

 

[treelo]

PBC folds

close this one please

 

[robjenkins2]

TV buys are not sustainable, have to garner a network deal with someone.

 

[Queen B]

Maybe this will pressure Haymon to start putting better fights.

Deontay and Thurman on the same card

 

[cuban23]

People act like it would be this terrible thing that PBC collapses. All that would mean is Haymon would bring his guys back to Showtime. PBC is an experiment and, like it or not, we're getting good fights and we're getting good fights often.

 

[Queen B]

People act like it would be this terrible thing that PBC collapses. All that would mean is Haymon would bring his guys back to Showtime. PBC is an experiment and, like it or not, we're getting good fights and we're getting good fights often.

We are getting mismatches.

Out of their 100 or whatever cards, we got 2 good matchups. Broner/Porter and Thurman/Porter. You can make a case for Khan/Algieri.

 

[caged_mma]

I know this looks bad, especially on the bottom line, but I really think that PBC has some value and has made some good moves as of late. Being from PA, especially having friends in the Pittsburgh area, we were thrilled that we got to see Sammy Vasquez fight on practically on basic cable. That was the most fun I've had watching boxing on TV in a long time; I'm actively going to see live boxing cards in my area and looking forward to seeing more boxing cards on TV.

PBC is also making champions and contenders visible and easily followed, which is a lot of the issue that I had at first. If it folds, that will suck, but I think that PBC has a lot of good work left to do.

[DISCLAIMER: This user is a boxing novice. Any and all opinions offered are that of a novice and should be taken extremely lightly. Thank you for your patience with this user while they absorb protocol and etiquette.]

 

[RandomUser12]

You wonder how someone so supposedly intelligent as Haymon could make such a massive fuckup of something that should be so simple, but then you realise he didn't invest a single cent of his own money into this project and he's making 15% of his fighters grossly over-inflated purses.

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Wow this forum is dead. Lol

 

[opie]

We are getting mismatches.

Out of their 100 or whatever cards, we got 2 good matchups. Broner/Porter and Thurman/Porter. You can make a case for Khan/Algieri.

they're fun to watch

 

[rj1]

Someone on Reddit posted Waddell & Reed's Q4 financials that kicked off this firestorm. They state their investment in the PBC has been $521 million. Of that money, only $82 million is remaining. So at the current rate they should be out of money by the end of 2016.

Class-action lawsuit vs. Waddell & Reed from their investors for being misled on risks is likely. (It was a 3-year plan, and the cash burn they're doing they won't last 3 years.) Imagine PBC would get dragged into that.

 

[Queen B]

Someone on Reddit posted Waddell & Reed's Q4 financials that kicked off this firestorm. They state their investment in the PBC has been $521 million. Of that money, only $82 million is remaining. So at the current rate they should be out of money by the end of 2016.

Class-action lawsuit vs. Waddell & Reed from their investors for being misled on risks is likely. (It was a 3-year plan, and the cash burn they're doing they won't last 3 years.) Imagine PBC would get dragged into that.

Thats with the earnings as well?

If thats the case then boxing is pretty much dead in America

 

[Queen B]

Well, based on a recent post on Reddit PBC may have spent too much too soon. Based on that post, of the $528 million acquired in funding, there’s roughly only $82 million still available.

If the numbers are in fact true, then based on the rate of spending and the amount of funds still available, it doesn’t seem likely that PBC will last long enough to see the summer.

http://ringsidereport.com/?p=58102

I think they have enough money for 1 more good primetime card after Thurman/Porter before they go under.

PBC folds

close this one please

You are probably correct, even though you are being sarcastic

 

[Queen B]

lol PBC is doing so bad that they are getting sued by individual investors for bad investments

https://twitter.com/latimespugmire

The NY Atty told me these are "mom and pop individual investors, not institutions, damaged by investments," to @premierboxing

http://nyfights.com/2016/02/02/haymon-boxing-asserts-well-being/

PBC spokesman pretty much admits that they lost massive money, but it sounds like all of the money spent is for reserving a lot of primetime shows for 2016. They are really banking on these primetime shows 2016. If these fail, then PBC will fold by the end of 2017.

TLDR: They are going for broke in 2016, literally. imo they shouldve built their brand and saved it for 2017

 

[1122]

That sucks, I had high hopes this little experiment would work out but the matchups haven't been all that.

 

[Queen B]

Someone on Reddit posted Waddell & Reed's Q4 financials that kicked off this firestorm. They state their investment in the PBC has been $521 million. Of that money, only $82 million is remaining. So at the current rate they should be out of money by the end of 2016.

Class-action lawsuit vs. Waddell & Reed from their investors for being misled on risks is likely. (It was a 3-year plan, and the cash burn they're doing they won't last 3 years.) Imagine PBC would get dragged into that.

It turns out that they spent most of their money on 2016 air time, so they havent gotten the return on investments yet.

Their fate really depends on how well they do this year. They are going for broke on the 2nd year, though I think they shouldve waited for next year to spend all that cash.


My guess is since year 1 was not successful, they dont want another mediocre year 2 and mediocre year 3. They rather go all out on year 2 and if that dont work they will leave the business.

 

[ZroC]

People act like it would be this terrible thing that PBC collapses. All that would mean is Haymon would bring his guys back to Showtime. PBC is an experiment and, like it or not, we're getting good fights and we're getting good fights often.

I can actually see this being used as justification for opening a paid boxing only network. Piss off showtime and HBO enough to make them reject Haymon fighters, create bad cards to force low ratings on network tv = no place to go but subscription paid boxing network run by Haymon, whoopsy daisy.

 

[farfan]

This guy is truly a wizard .
After conning networks executives into overpaying for crappy fighters and cards for years , he somehow manged to convince fund managers to pour shitload of cash into an investment with no profitability in sight .

 

[CatchnShoot]

When the broad strokes of the PBC's funding was initially released, I flat out said that this was a criminal fleecing of investors, and that if I were invested with these crooks I'd be looking for legal recourse.

Guess what? Turns out big Al is a POS. Who woulda thunk it?

 

[ThirdPartyView]

This guy is truly a wizard .
After conning networks executives into overpaying for crappy fighters and cards for years , he somehow manged to convince fund managers to pour shitload of cash into an investment with no profitability in sight .

To be fair, half of the Silicon Valley startups getting dumped by fund managers looking for the next Google or Facebook. Of course, Boxing is a completely different beast and money men shouldn't dump cash into that business unless they have actual promotional experience.