Columbus statue covered up in LA, Columbus Day removed and replaced by Indiginous Peoples Day

[Rod1]

Oh? So, will either you or @helltoupee then explain precisely what an Indigenous Peoples' Day would be celebrating? Seriously - what is it? Their accomplishments? Their history of slavery, human sacrifice, and a pretty shit record from a humanitarian standpoint? Their survival of a genocide? Them simply being there? Is it merely an act of atonement and not actually celebrating anything about the Indigenous peoples themselves - an "We're sorry!" holiday? What? I completely understand wanting to get rid of Columbus day. I am just wondering why we want to replace it with this particular holiday as I see it potentially celebrating a lot of really bad stuff too. Then again, we celebrate a lot of bad shit already. So why - why particularly - an Indigenous Peoples' Day?

You've both assumed that I'm not serious when I say I'm down with an Indigenous Peoples' Day. You are wrong and your massive, throbbing bias is splooging all over this thread in you both tripping over yourselves to be the first to virtue signal some caricature making it look like I want to celebrate genocide. Honestly, I'm down with getting rid of Columbus Day for a wide variety of really good reasons. I just want to know - if we replace it with Indigenous Peoples' Day, what would we be celebrating? Precisely? Because the history of the Indigenous Peoples is tangled up with a *whole* lot of stuff which we supposedly find utterly abhorrent and barbaric before the white man ever showed up.

If that question of "What would we be celebrating with Indigenous Peoples' Day?" gets you so defensive, I suggest you take a step back and analyze the foundation of whatever position you think you're pushing. It may not be grounded as virtuously as you might hope.

How about the colonization of an entirely new continent that had never been inhabited by a Homo genus species?

 

[44nutman]

Many fine people on both sides.

Columbus did some raping, so he is probably a hero of that sexual predator, O'Reilly.

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

By the way, have I ever told you how genocidal and aggressive communism and Islam are? Fucking college kids and Muslims, if they ever dare prop up a statue of a communist...

But that oppression is going on right now. If the snowflakes wanted to stop Christians from being crucified or beheaded, women from being sold into slavery or raped, or in general the torture of the innocent, etc... they would have to actually get off their ass, take a semester off from Berkley and risk their life fighting the cartel, ISIS, or any other Muslim group in Europe.

 

[ehtheist]

How about the colonization of an entirely new continent that had never been inhabited by a Homo genus species?

Sure. That's a fair answer, if an odd one. Is this something people around the world generally celebrate? Because there are a whole slew of place could have days celebrating the primitive ancestors who were the first to colonize an "entirely new continent that had never been inhabited by a Homo genus species" but I don't hear about that being a thing. Maybe I'm uninformed? People tend to celebrate civilization, accomplishment, art, technology, philosophy, not "you were the first dirt munchers here." Maybe we're trying to start something new and we'll suddenly start to have holidays, on every continent, celebrating the very first people who settled there, because they settled there, rather than specific things about them and their cultures.

Is that what everyone is saying this holiday is about then? We're celebrating the first people to set up shop on this continent? Is that what it is being pitched as? When Homer and Hell were getting so up in arms about my first post, what they were really thinking was "That ignorant Ehtheist just doesn't know that this holiday is celebrating the first colonization of the Americas!" I wish they would have just told me!

 

[ripskater]

No society was perfect. The indigenous people who survived also killed many indigenous people before them in order to build their societies here.

 

[Slick_36]

How about the colonization of an entirely new continent that had never been inhabited by a Homo genus species?

We don't have a continuous history of Cahokia, despite it being larger than many European cities at the time including London. But since they went through an apocalyptic plague and a systemic genocide, we have to pretend they did nothing at all. I guess that means we have to ignore modern figures like Russell Means and Jim Thorpe too.

 

[snakedafunky]

Oh? So, will either you or @helltoupee then explain precisely what an Indigenous Peoples' Day would be celebrating? Seriously - what is it? Their accomplishments? Their history of slavery, human sacrifice, and a pretty shit record from a humanitarian standpoint? Their survival of a genocide? Them simply being there? Is it merely an act of atonement and not actually celebrating anything about the Indigenous peoples themselves - an "We're sorry!" holiday? What? I completely understand wanting to get rid of Columbus day. I am just wondering why we want to replace it with this particular holiday as I see it potentially celebrating a lot of really bad stuff too. Then again, we celebrate a lot of bad shit already. So why - why particularly - an Indigenous Peoples' Day?

Happy genocide day!

I think it would be a sort of two way public holiday. Like remembering their culture and also remember the genocide.
Of course their culture was shit from today's standard. But so are many others I can still see the point in remembering them.

Its of course just a waste of time and money changing it. That wont magical solve any issues.
I mean Native American wont stop drinking and taking drugs because they renamed a holiday.
I think the effort on money could be spent in a more effect way trying to help them.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Why dont we just have Columbus day and indigenous people day as 2 holidays

Remembering the brutalities of the past is in my opinion a great way to keep yourself from doing them again.

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

They killed some natives while they were there. But they were greatly outnumbered. They were able to secure some peace through trading but eventually kept getting attacked and thought the colony wasn't worth it.

But that oppression is going on right now. If the snowflakes wanted to stop Christians from being crucified or beheaded, women from being sold into slavery or raped, or in general the torture of the innocent, etc... they would have to actually get off their ass, take a semester off from Berkley and risk their life fighting the cartel, ISIS, or any other Muslim group in Europe.

Hey I never said this!

 

[MasterSeagal]

Columbus discovered the new world. Down the line the discovery would lead to the founding of the USA. I suppose that's the logic behind his celebration. I don't see a problem with either celebrating him or not celebrating him... it's all about perspective.

However I think it's hysterical to say that celebrating Columbus Day means you're pro-genocide or something. He's being celebrated for the historical significance of his expedition, not because he enslaved natives.

 

[surgeyou1]

Good.

Colombus was a huge piece of shit.

 

[helltoupee]

Oh? So, will either you or @helltoupee then explain precisely what an Indigenous Peoples' Day would be celebrating? Seriously - what is it? Their accomplishments? Their history of slavery, human sacrifice, and a pretty shit record from a humanitarian standpoint? Their survival of a genocide? Them simply being there? Is it merely an act of atonement and not actually celebrating anything about the Indigenous peoples themselves - an "We're sorry!" holiday? What? I completely understand wanting to get rid of Columbus day. I am just wondering why we want to replace it with this particular holiday as I see it potentially celebrating a lot of really bad stuff too. Then again, we celebrate a lot of bad shit already. So why - why particularly - an Indigenous Peoples' Day?

You've both assumed that I'm not serious when I say I'm down with an Indigenous Peoples' Day. You are wrong and your massive, throbbing bias is splooging all over this thread in you both tripping over yourselves to be the first to virtue signal some caricature making it look like I want to celebrate genocide. Honestly, I'm down with getting rid of Columbus Day for a wide variety of really good reasons. I just want to know - if we replace it with Indigenous Peoples' Day, what would we be celebrating? Precisely? Because the history of the Indigenous Peoples is tangled up with a *whole* lot of stuff which we supposedly find utterly abhorrent and barbaric before the white man ever showed up.

If that question of "What would we be celebrating with Indigenous Peoples' Day?" gets you so defensive, I suggest you take a step back and analyze the foundation of whatever position you think you're pushing. It may not be grounded as virtuously as you might hope.

Your initial post, as well as the one above, reek of condescension, not sincerity.

 

[Rod1]

Sure. That's a fair answer, if an odd one. Is this something people around the world generally celebrate? Because there are a whole slew of place could have days celebrating the primitive ancestors who were the first to colonize an "entirely new continent that had never been inhabited by a Homo genus species" but I don't hear about that being a thing. Maybe I'm uninformed? People tend to celebrate civilization, accomplishment, art, technology, philosophy, not "you were the first dirt munchers here." Maybe we're trying to start something new and we'll suddenly start to have holidays, on every continent, celebrating the very first people who settled there, because they settled there, rather than specific things about them and their cultures.

Is that what everyone is saying this holiday is about then? We're celebrating the first people to set up shop on this continent? Is that what it is being pitched as? When Homer and Hell were getting so up in arms about my first post, what they were really thinking was "That ignorant Ehtheist just doesn't know that this holiday is celebrating the first colonization of the Americas!" I wish they would have just told me!

As opposed to

"Gratz you got lost on your way to India and then proceeded to enslave the people that saved your ass because you didnt found anything of value and had to pay your debtors... day"

 

[FrankensteinMMA]

No society was perfect. The indigenous people who survived also killed many indigenous people before them in order to build their societies here.

Every race killed their own kind. The Native Americans are not some notable exception to this.

 

[Rational Poster]

lol Russia bots.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

I’m enjoying my day off on Columbus Day. Get back to work you indigenous peoples day peasants.

 

[ehtheist]

Your initial post, as well as the one above, reek of condescension, not sincerity.

About 2/3 of my post reek of that. That's how my preferred mode of communication. I notice you and Homer aren't rushing to answer the question though? Some have and done a pretty solid job of it, but not you two... Oh, I wonder why, I wonder why...

As opposed to

"Gratz you got lost on your way to India and then proceeded to enslave the people that saved your ass because you didnt found anything of value and had to pay your debtors... day"

Yep, you're pointing out some of the good reasons I was hinting at before for getting rid of Columbus day. I didn't ask the question of "Why get rid of Columbus Day" because I consider there to be many obvious reasons why we should get rid of it. What I asked was "Why Indigenous Peoples' Day?" because I want to know what we're celebrating.

So is that your take on it? We're celebrating the colonization of the Americas by the Indigenous Peoples? That's what the people wanting this holiday to be put in are saying? Is celebrating colonizers who kept slaves becoming a thing again? Human sacrifice - all good? Is our general societal concern for the evils of a culture being waived in this case so we can celebrate the original colonization? I do hope that as we're doing this, we don't white wash the history of these colonizers and recognize that they were a bunch of dicks themselves doing horrible, abhorrent things to each other, and we openly include that in our discussion about their accomplishments - like we do with other groups throughout history.

 

[Rod1]

"That ignorant Ehtheist just doesn't know that this holiday is celebrating the first colonization of the Americas!" I wish they would have just told me!

I think they were going for the heritage angle.

 

[Fawlty]

Call it whatever, keep the holiday. Add a few more holidays while we're at it. We don't have nearly enough of them.

 

[MasterSeagal]

As opposed to

"Gratz you got lost on your way to India and then proceeded to enslave the people that saved your ass because you didnt found anything of value and had to pay your debtors... day"

He found an entirely new land mass (unknown to europeans at the time). This would in turn lead to numerous other expeditions which completely changed the course of history. The Spanish conquest of central and south america. The silver the spaniards brought from their american colonies changed international trade. The potato, brought from south america lead to a population explosion in europe... and so on.