Collar/lapel chokes - sucks my nut!!

[EatMyShorts]

Applying and defending this is a heinous abomination.

I was primarily wrestling and no gi for some years; last 18 months, more gi work.
I've come to grips with it reasonably well but, these are, by far, the biggest cunt-factor pertaining to the gi.

It's constant - there's always a choke there using the gi.

My primary defense has been, hand inside, turn into the choke.
But then there's that lapel around the neck shit - which tightens the more you turn into it.

I suppose what I'm asking for here is:

Can someone post some concise videos on how to apply and defend collar/lapel chokes?

I figure - if I start using them, I'll understand them better, then I can defend them better.

So - geniuses:

Videos plz.

 

[fanboysareevil]

There is no super concise way to defend collar chokes.

You don't let people put their hands deep in your collar/in ways that are immediately threatening. After a while you develop a spider sense to the danger when low grips invite loop chokes.

I hate lapel wrap around stuff myself and don't know what to tell you lol. Just circle out/unwind when people begin to wrap your lapels. You can pass holding your own lapel if it becomes a big enough problem.

 

[EatMyShorts]

There is no super concise way to defend collar chokes.

You don't let people put their hands deep in your collar/in ways that are immediately threatening. After a while you develop a spider sense to the danger when low grips invite loop chokes.

I hate lapel wrap around stuff myself and don't know what to tell you lol. Just circle out/unwind when people begin to wrap your lapels. You can pass holding your own lapel if it becomes a big enough problem.

That last part - how do you do that?

Vid?

 

[TheMood]

You just need to break the collar grips. You cannot be collar choked if there is no collar grip. Grip fighting is a big part of training with a gi. If you have worse grips than your partner you will probably end up in a worse position.

 

[TheMood]

 

[davou]

This is what makes training in the gi so good. Defense in the gi is much harder than defense in nogi owing to friction and the other persons ability to grab onto stuff.

A couple of general tips will help

• Posture is hella important when facing someone who can gi choke you.
• Don't let someone have a deep grip on you collar without answering it (if they have one hand almost at the back of your neck, make sure you completely control their other hand)
• If possible, break grips before you start to wonder if you're at risk for being choked.
• (this one is for loop chokes) If they make a grip on your gi near your collar bone, they can choke you with one hand... BUT they can't do it if when they make that low grip, you pummel OVER their hand on the same side and grip their collar.
• DON'T pass the guard low if someone has a grip inside your collar. ITS A TRAP. (you can start to break this rule when you understand the collar chokes a bit better)

 

[fanboysareevil]

You grab your own lapel and then you hold it. That simple! Yes it limits you otherwise but it sends the message they MUST do something else other than the lapel feed game.

 

[EatMyShorts]

You grab your own lapel and then you hold it. That simple! Yes it limits you otherwise but it sends the message they MUST do something else other than the lapel feed game.

As in, hold it before they get the chance to feed it around the back of your neck?
To prevent that?

What if it's there already?

I like to let guys get a deep grip, make them think they're gonna get the choke, they sneakily reverse them with hip bump or some shit.

This sometimes back fires with that lapel feed around the neck, and the weird collar choke from the back, then they go to the side as if for armbar, but holding the collar.

These, I need to learn counters for.

 

[fanboysareevil]

I like to let guys get a deep grip

Stop doing this. This is the equivalent of blocking punches with your face so you can land your own counter. Also you don't get to complain about gi chokes if you don't even recognize the standard lapel/bow and arrow from the back as being standard.

 

[EndlessCritic]

How to collar choke someone? Step 1: Grab collar with non choking hand. Step 2: Pull collar to remove slack. Step 3: Feed collar into choking hand.

How to stop a collar choke? Fight grips.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Stop doing this. This is the equivalent of blocking punches with your face so you can land your own counter. Also you don't get to complain about gi chokes if you don't even recognize the standard lapel/bow and arrow from the back as being standard.

I agree with you the bow and arrow is standard and a thing of beauty. It's not some weird unknown choke from the mount or the side control when you put out your gi from the belt. It's a basic choke and you need to learn how to defend it.

That and the loop choke from the back are standard, we drill them almost as often as the standard armbar or the triangle.

Personnally anytime I get the back in no gi I feel like there's so few options without the bow and arrow and the loop choke.

 

[EatMyShorts]

Okay

1) Loop choke
2) loop choke from the back
3) bow and arrow choke.

Now - what's the choke where the collar is fed up around the neck?
It's when I've been turning into it, it gets tighter.

 

[davou]

Okay

1) Loop choke
2) loop choke from the back
3) bow and arrow choke.

Now - what's the choke where the collar is fed up around the neck?
It's when I've been turning into it, it gets tighter.

1 ) Loop choke is when they go above your head with their elbow and then go around your neck.
2) Im not super sure on the terminology for this one. I imagine its when you go for the bow and arrow, but instead of scooping out, you go under their arm and behind their head with the non choking arm?
3) This is when you have a lapel from the back, sit out to the side, and grab the pants/waist and pull on the choke while imobilizing their body from slackening the choke

 

[fanboysareevil]

This is a loop choke:

Not sure what loop choke from the back you guys are talking about.

 

[ChumsGum]

If your on top, in half guard, side mount, or full mount and they're trying to choke you off their back you can always apply the push up defense. Push off their chest will break most of those chokes. You can also control an arm and armbar.

 

[Quebec Nick]

This is a loop choke:

Not sure what loop choke from the back you guys are talking about.

Don't have a video but it's a pretty easy move

You take the back with hooks in

You grab the opposite collar with your right hand (pretty much like a bow and arrow grip)

The guy will try to break the grip with is left hand

You take is hand or break is grip with your left hand

You circle so is left arm is stuck and you go put your arm at the back of is head

In the end you will have your left shoulder in the left armpit and your arm behind the guy's neck almost elbow deep.

We drill it a lot where I train and it's a good option when the bow and arrow doesn't work and to surprise someone.

 

[fanboysareevil]

Don't have a video but it's a pretty easy move

You take the back with hooks in

You grab the opposite collar with your right hand (pretty much like a bow and arrow grip)

The guy will try to break the grip with is left hand

You take is hand or break is grip with your left hand

You circle so is left arm is stuck and you go put your arm at the back of is head

In the end you will have your left shoulder in the left armpit and your arm behind the guy's neck almost elbow deep.

We drill it a lot where I train and it's a good option when the bow and arrow doesn't work and to surprise someone.

I know the choke. It's just not a loop choke to the vast majority of people/gyms.

 

[Quebec Nick]

I know the choke. It's just not a loop choke to the vast majority of people/gyms.

Ok what it is called to you then, I really wanna know, sorry if it sounds cocky

It's pretty much the same logic as the one from the top as you showed on the video or from the turtle

You get a collar grip and you stuff an arm between the shoulder and neck to create pressure

 

[jcandoitbig]

I put off the gi for so long before I finally committed, now I train 80% of the time in the gi. I love it.

Learn some Judo, best for grip break technique. Trust me once you hit your first gi choke you'll go into a rabbit hole of awesomeness.

 

[fanboysareevil]

Ok what it is called to you then, I really wanna know, sorry if it sounds cocky

It's pretty much the same logic as the one from the top as you showed on the video or from the turtle

You get a collar grip and you stuff an arm between the shoulder and neck to create pressure

They're mechanically pretty different. The one I linked is something like a guillotine with the gi and the one you're describing is a variation of the standard sliding collar choke/bow and arrow. It's called kataha jime in Judo but I don't really have a standard BJJ/English name.