Clean fighters want 4 years for Jon Jones and Anderson Silva. USADA win credibility

[Moezao]

Perfect punishment for both would be to give them matchups against the divisions best asap. this while making sure they are both clean.

You know that means Jones would be champ again. How is that punishment?

 

[theheater]

You haters are pathetic. All reported evidence from Jones case points to a light suspension because of tainted supps. Wishing ill on someone's career aka wishing for their life to be fucked is terrible. Get a hobby losers. Jones will be back in 2019 and will get the belt back that he never lost.

Jones had a highly suspicious and controversial testing situation before the first DC fight. Any expert will tell you that jones wildly fluctuating hormone levels from test to test could not be explained by natural causes. Neither could the fact that the best fighter in the history of the sport had the hormone profile of a 60 year old woman. Since then, the UFC has hired USADA and Jones has failed 2 tests.

You can say a bunch of haters can't see that this is a case of tainted supplements but perhaps you should open your eyes to the possibility that there's a mountain of evidence that Jones is a juicer and has sociopath tendencies and those same people view a 3rd strike in juicing evidence and 20th strike on his character leaves those people completely unconvinced by a tainted supplement story.

 

[wellz6]

Are clean fighters really.....clean?

I seriously doubt it. I think to fight at the very top level most people are on something. It'd be very hard to be natural and train hard all day and recuperate enough to do that 5-6 days in a row.

 

[AimedWithV]

You're really comparing flat earth and 9/11 conspiracies to pro athletes being on PEDs?

Let me guess: Wonderland is real?

Oh yeah, here we go again. Another poor defense of conspiracy theorists.
You do not believe me? You're naive!LOL

 

[ortizgnp]

Oh yeah, here we go again. Another poor defense of conspiracy theorists.
You do not believe me? You're naive!LOL

hahahah

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

I hope they get 4.

 

[JoshR86]

Not really. A great tool to catch some cheaters is through the use of the ABP (Athlete Biological Passport), which takes multiple tests before it becomes really useful, but once it is it results "in a significant increase in the number of adverse analytical findings (AAFs) that are a result of targeting by the ABP".

Since USADA was implemented in the UFC they've done over 6,000 tests and I'd be willing to bet that as the ABP data has been filled in fewer fighters have been doing as many prohibited substances. USADA has made the sport cleaner, not clean but cleaner. And it'll continue to get cleaner in the near future as USADA continues to catch and sanction fighters. With Jones and Anderson we're seeing high profile repeat violators and as long as USADA follows their sanctioning guidelines and hits them with harsh suspensions more and more fighters will re-think the risk-reward of doping.

Do you know how long it takes to develop an athletes APB??

Like I said 50% is an very exaggerated number, I'd be surprised if it even hits 5%

 

[Muppettoker]

Other sports have accepted it and only superficially try to stop it. Look at the NFL. Guys get busted and maybe suspended for a few games and they are back. All those MF'ers are on PED's but the NFL is a multi-billion dollar empire and they aren't going to jeopardize that with trying to hardcore crack down, they wouldn't have a league left.

I totally agree.
The ufc were stupid to do it in the first place and like you say plenty of other sports get along without good testing. It’s just the NFL can claim there isn’t any problem and they are catching the few that are using(haha at that, they obviously are all on it)
Whereas the ufc have already shown a problem exists if they go back to only catching a few the perception will be it’s just no longer being caught.

I like the idea of a clean sport but the UFC has really shot itself in the foot multiple times with the whole USADA testing:
Fighters not as healthy
Not ‘A level’ performances
Suspensions
Disgraced champs etc

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Usada should give the two years each, but before the ban starts, they have to fight each other at 200lbs. If they dont, they get four.

 

[68WCombatMedic]

What about getting kicked in the liver? What about their occupation?

I’m not sure why you would be a fan of fighting. Let alone cage fighting. And your concerned about the safety
Of peds.
And not the relentless head trauma.

As for me. I care about neither.

I literally pay to watch men fight in a cage. I have no moral high ground to say that peds are unsafe for cage fighters.

It's not about morals or "right or wrong". It's a scientific fact that there are long term health issues associated with PED use.

I have no issues with it being their occupation, its a sport. But substances that cause unneeded health risks should not be allowed, and those that use them, should be punished.

By your logic, shit, it's just fighting so let them use knives, right? I mean we have no moral high ground to stand upon, right? It's a fight, so fuck it, let them fight to the death, right? Who cares about what the rules are or that PED's, like weapons, are banned. Right?

 

[killakillakilla]

Jones doesnt need steriods to beat the best. Still has reach and elbows.

And fingers! Ohhhhh

 

[JoshR86]

The ABP doesn't have a definitive line that is crossed to be valid, it's just a compilation of past testing data points to help identify trends and outliers to better understand what's happening within an athletes body. For instance if their T level is repeatedly in the low end of the range and then suddenly a tests comes in where it's in the high end of the range, it could be an indicator of something that needs further investigation. The athlete may never test out of the normal range, but still have suspicious data.

As for your comment about percentages, I don't understand what you're talking/asking about?

1st - you only need a couple of months worth of data to get a beat on an athletes average levels.

Or in USADA's case several visits, for conversation sake let's say 3 tests should give you a general idea since fluctuation isn't supposed to be that dramatic in healthy males.

2nd - my initial point was in response to a post about if USADA gives out 4 year bans UFC will lose 1/2 there roster.

In which case i pointed out that number is illogical and very exaggerated, since over 90% have passed every USADA test.

Then you said that the number will go up because they needed time to develop an APB, in which I pointed out they have already have sufficient time to develop their APB.

 

[zephid]

Silva could do with a 4 year ban to save him from himself

Jones deserves it too but it would be a shame for him to be gone that long at his age

To be honest, I doubt it matters whether he gets 2 or 4 years, in all likelihood he'll retire either way.

 

[Ken Oath]

They they should be forced to take female hormones for a year if they want to fight.

 

[JoshR86]

OK, you have me confused with someone else I guess (I never brought up "1/2 the roster" nor did I say that the "number will go up because they needed time to develop an APB". I did quote WADA's assertion that the use of the ABP results in an increase in violations.

As for how much time is necessary for the ABP to become reliably accurate, I purposely did not give a time frame or other quantifier because frankly I don't know (I'm sure @dimspace could tell us).

It does stand to logic that it takes multiple tests to form the baseline data and that the more data points available the more accurate it becomes. As for your assertion that 3 tests is enough, again I don't KNOW but I would've thought it'd take more than 3 (8-10 sounds more reasonable/reliable to me, with a variety of in/out of competition and pre-post weigh-ins, but I'm no Dimspace).

When you say "fluctuation isn't supposed to be that dramatic in healthy males" I lean towards disagreeing with that statement, but it's vague enough that maybe I'd agree with more info. My biggest problem with that assertion is that fighters are not just healthy males and that weight cutting alone could play havoc with some of the testing data. But in any case, I'm just glad that USADA is doing the Biological Passport and while it certainly won't catch every cheater (or even most) it's certainly a very good tool in their toolbox.

lol sorry problem having multiple convo's going on at the same time.

I've ran cycles before, there is tremendous fluctuation, your shutting down your bodies natural secretion of hormones, to where it's not producing anything anymore, to believe something like that can occur naturally or similar is totally false. (Why Jones had Test levels of a 9 year old girl in the first DC fight). Then you need to take a PCT to promote hormone production while simultaneously taking supplements that turns off your estrogen receptors. This then brings you from 0 to where you start producing again. Victor Conte claims that anything over a 30% deviation in camp is a red flag.

So when I refer to " Healthy Males " I'm referring to an individual who doesn't have a medical problem like hypogonadism.

 

[Kertol]

They deserve 4 years each. Repeat offense.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

The idea that anyone should be getting a four year suspension is completely fucking ridiculous. It shows you why no major professional sport in the United States would ever touch USADA With a 10 foot pole. Yeah I’m sure the NBA would really risk losing LeBron James 4 years, because they found a trace of a steroid in his system.. this after he passed like 35 drug tests.. Yeah that would really happen.

 

[franklinstower]

There should be 0 punishment. Let them take PEDs also. Silva is nowhere close to what he was and he sucks now so he should be forced to take PED's. Jones is still a beast so they should let him continue asap. It is ridiculous to ban the greatest fighter that has ever lived.

Nah. We cant have a group of people with no respect for themselves or the sport or basic honesty bringing everyone down with them. 4 years each is ideal.

 

[NorrisB]

Armstrong treatment for Jones and Silva

 

[dim_]

You really are dense as fuck. He got 1 year when he was looking at two... because evidence proved he took a tainted supp. Jones didnt do his due diligence in making sure he knew exactly what he was taking which is why he got the 1 year suspension.
fucking Tim Means got 6 months even after proving that he took a tainted supplement. USADA are head hunters, they do whatever they can to impose a suspension.

Youre Mad af because bones will be back next year taking money fights while you continue to eat all your mom's food and play UFC in her basement wondering where life made the wrong turn.

Completely and utterly wrong.

Some substances have a one year penalty some have a two year penalty

The standard punishment under usada for clomiphine (a specified substance) is one year

He got the max