Cholesterol and Sat Fat

[Cory_Pilfold]

So, are you saying that we've evolved to eat a vegan diet? because I didn't see any traditional peoples on that page that were vegans. They all had one thing in common - a quest for animal fat. Veganism has only become popular in the past century or so, certainly as civilizations and populations have risen. Interestingly, the more agriculture foods we have consumed, the greater the population has gotten out of control.

I don't actually agree with that one, It's only in the past 60 years ago that our intake of animal fat has increase dramatically. We didn't used to eat this way.

 

[Cory_Pilfold]

This is incorrect. I got done reading The Fat of the Land not too long ago and it cited that the traditional Inuit ate up to 6 pounds of lean meat a day not including the fat. And they ate an 80/20 fat/protein ratio for optimal energy and to stay away from rabbit starvation also. That is a lot of meat - much more than we eat today.

I am actually part native myself, and In case you didn't realize..The average lifespan of the Eskimos was around 60 years. I don't think that's a good argument to pursue if you want to prove your point about how animal fat based diets are good for you.

 

[stylesbjj**]

^^^^
Actually in the 1900's to 1950's, our animal fat intake was higher than it is now because we would cook everything in animal fat.

While our animal fat intake has decreased, our poly-6's intake has increases so much that we are now consuming much more total fat now than we were 50-60 years ago.

Hmmm,

It looks like while meat consumption has increased (not as significantly as I thought) the increases has been mostly in chicken and fish.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/foodreview/jan2000/frjan2000b.pdf

 

[takeahnase]

I don't actually agree with that one, It's only in the past 60 years ago that our intake of animal fat has increase dramatically. We didn't used to eat this way.

This obviously refers to a period that lies further back than 60 years:

Cordain L, Brand Miller J, Eaton SB, Mann N, Holt SHA, Speth JD. Plant to animal subsistence ratios and macronutrient energy estimations in world wide hunter-gatherer diets. Am J Clin Nutr 2000, 71:682-92.

ABSTRACT

Both anthropologists and nutritionists have long recognized that the diets of modern-day hunter-gatherers may represent a reference standard for modern human nutrition and a model for defense against certain diseases of affluence. Because the hunter-gatherer way of life is now probably extinct in its purely un-Westernized form, nutritionists and anthropologists must rely on indirect procedures to reconstruct the traditional diet of preagricultural humans. In this analysis, we incorporate the most recent ethnographic compilation of plant-to-animal economic subsistence patterns of hunter-gatherers to estimate likely dietary macronutrient intakes (% of energy) for environmentally diverse hunter-gatherer populations. Furthermore, we show how differences in the percentage of body fat in prey animals would alter protein intakes in hunter-gatherers and how a maximal protein ceiling influences the selection of other macronutrients. Our analysis showed that whenever and wherever it was ecologically possible, hunter-gatherers consumed high amounts (45-65% of energy) of animal food. Most (73%) of the worldwide hunter-gatherer societies derived >50% (> or =56-65% of energy) of their subsistence from animal foods, whereas only 14% of these societies derived >50% (> or =56-65% of energy) of their subsistence from gathered plant foods. This high reliance on animal-based foods coupled with the relatively low carbohydrate content of wild plant foods produces universally characteristic macronutrient consumption ratios in which protein is elevated (19-35% of energy) at the expense of carbohydrates (22-40% of energy).

 

[takeahnase]

^^^^
Actually in the 1900's to 1950's, our animal fat intake was higher than it is now because we would cook everything in animal fat.

While our animal fat intake has decreased, our poly-6's intake has increases so much that we are now consuming much more total fat now than we were 50-60 years ago.

Hmmm,

It looks like while meat consumption has increased (not as significantly as I thought) the increases has been mostly in chicken and fish.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/foodreview/jan2000/frjan2000b.pdf

We are also basically eating the same amount of vegetables as 50 years ago and more fruit. OMG, fruit is deadly!11!!

 

[Cory_Pilfold]

^^^^
Actually in the 1900's to 1950's, our animal fat intake was higher than it is now because we would cook everything in animal fat.

While our animal fat intake has decreased, our poly-6's intake has increases so much that we are now consuming much more total fat now than we were 50-60 years ago.

True, but most of the time it would have been some type of fish oil..Which isn't nearly as bad as some of the stuff we are consuming today in America.

Out of the the abstract of the study you quote:



Are you telling me the Inuit are eating more meat now than they were 50 years ago? Probably has more to do with goverment funded hand-outs of crackers and canned ravioli.

The article Disease Proof: Do Primitive Peoples Really Live Longer? you quoted states that Masia have average life expectancy of 42 (men). This article is from 2001. 2001 life expectancy for men in Kenya was 46 (Kenya People 2001 - Flags, Maps, Economy, Geography, Climate, Natural Resources, Current Issues, International Agreements, Population, Social Statistics, Political System). Whether nutrition accounts for this difference is not discussed in the study. How about linking articles that actually point show the results you are trying to demonstrate?

I'm pretty sure that a vegan diet would be beneficial relative to a typical American diet. But any diet would fare pretty well relative to a typical American diet. But I don't see what the benefits of a vegan diet would be relative to balanced diet based on whole foods and including a significant amount of animal products.

I don't think you really see the entire point here, Americans are swimming with disease and illness..as well as obesity because of their poor diets. Basically revolved around the diet you just described. High cholesterol and saturated fat intake gradually builds up in the bloodstream, and clogs the arteries over long periods of time. This is why Hospitals continue to fill up at a rapid pace..The health care industry is growing each year, as America gets sicker..I think anything that drastically lowers the amount of cholesterol and saturated fat in our diet, and reverts us back to unsaturated fat..Will nearly guarantee a better diet, and a healthy outcome.

High cholesterol happens to be a leading cause of disease, Americans have an average cholesterol level of 210. It doesn't take a rocket science to realize that the reason disease has spiraled over the last 50-60 years, is because our very very high cholesterol and saturated fat intake. Coincidently 50-60 years ago is when our diet changed into primarily an animal based diet.

I'm not saying that it's completely because of this diet..But think about it, We are further in health care than we have ever been..as far as technology goes. We should be getting healthier, and not sicker each year. Just knowing this alone, one has to ask questions as to why this is happening.

This is probably the main reason why I don't buy into any mainstream scientists glorifying an animal fat based diet, and the standard American diet. This diet has already been proven unhealthy, and They continue to glorify it and convince the American public that its perfectly fine to eat like this.

I for one don't agree with this, And regardless of what you guys try and prove to me..It's not going to change my mind. I'm a truth seeker, and if something doesn't feel right to me..I seek out more answers.

 

[Mathias]

I don't actually agree with that one, It's only in the past 60 years ago that our intake of animal fat has increase dramatically. We didn't used to eat this way.

Vegetable fat consumption has increased while natural animal fats have decreased.

I am actually part native myself, and In case you didn't realize..The average lifespan of the Eskimos was around 60 years. I don't think that's a good argument to pursue if you want to prove your point about how animal fat based diets are good for you.

Why is it that in the same book Stef notes that their average lifespan was in the 80s with the majority living in their late 90s? and this of course is in shitty living conditions with arctic predators and diseases like trichinosis. Not that it means anyting, but I'm half Wampanoag indian myself - a tribe that is all retarded diabetic alcoholics now.

 

[takeahnase]

I for one don't agree with this, And regardless of what you guys try and prove to me..It's not going to change my mind. I'm a truth seeker, and if something doesn't feel right to me..I seek out more answers.

Do so somewhere else if possible.

 

[Cory_Pilfold]

We are also basically eating the same amount of vegetables as 50 years ago and more fruit. OMG, fruit is deadly!11!!

The average American eats one serving of Vegetables per day, and no fruit. Are you really so sure about that one?

 

[Cory_Pilfold]

Vegetable fat consumption has increased while natural animal fats have decreased.



Why is it that in the same book Stef notes that their average lifespan was in the 80s with the majority living in their late 90s? and this of course is in shitty living conditions with arctic predators and diseases like trichinosis. Not that it means anyting, but I'm half Wampanoag indian myself - a tribe that is all retarded diabetic alcoholics now.

Our vegetable fat consumption has NOT increased AT ALL! i don't know who told you this, or why you believe it..But as i said, the average american eats one serving of vegetables per day and no fruits. You're saying that we ate even less than that In the past?

Also..It's complete bullshit that the average lifespan was in the 80's and the majority living in their late 90's. I have relatives in my family who are inuit, and they live off this diet. Believe me when I say they are the last thing you would consider healthy. It's possible they may have lived this long in the past, But if so..It's been a very long time since that has happened, If indeed is is true.

 

[Mathias]

True, but most of the time it would have been some type of fish oil..Which isn't nearly as bad as some of the stuff we are consuming today in America.

Where the hell is the merit to this? If anything, people are consuming more fish oil today because of the new findings with it.

I don't think you really see the entire point here, Americans are swimming with disease and illness..as well as obesity because of their poor diets. Basically revolved around the diet you just described. High cholesterol and saturated fat intake gradually builds up in the bloodstream, and clogs the arteries over long periods of time. This is why Hospitals continue to fill up at a rapid pace..The health care industry is growing each year, as America gets sicker..I think anything that drastically lowers the amount of cholesterol and saturated fat in our diet, and reverts us back to unsaturated fat..Will nearly guarantee a better diet, and a healthy outcome.

High cholesterol happens to be a leading cause of disease, Americans have an average cholesterol level of 210. It doesn't take a rocket science to realize that the reason disease has spiraled over the last 50-60 years, is because our very very high cholesterol and saturated fat intake. Coincidently 50-60 years ago is when our diet changed into primarily an animal based diet.

You call yourself a 'truth seeker' and seem to really support the lipid hypothesis which has NEVER been proven as truth.

Do you know what has taken off in the last 50-60 years? Carbohydrates. The food pyramid is based around grains, fruits, and vegetables and people are still fat and sick. I know from experience, as I used to be a fat brainwashed idiot eating that way.

Here's something to challenge your high cholesterol theory, because that is all it is - a theory.

The Benefits of High Cholesterol

 

[stylesbjj**]

Our vegetable fat consumption has NOT increased AT ALL! i don't know who told you this, or why you believe it..But as i said, the average american eats one serving of vegetables per day and no fruits. You're saying that we ate even less than that In the past?

Also..It's complete bullshit that the average lifespan was in the 80's and the majority living in their late 90's. I have relatives in my family who are inuit, and they live off this diet. Believe me when I say they are the last thing you would consider healthy. It's possible they may have lived this long in the past, But if so..It's been a very long time since that has happened, If indeed is is true.

Not vegetable fat from vegetables, the increase has come from cooking oils.

 

[Cory_Pilfold]

Where the hell is the merit to this? If anything, people are consuming more fish oil today because of the new findings with it.



You call yourself a 'truth seeker' and seem to really support the lipid hypothesis which has NEVER been proven as truth.

Do you know what has taken off in the last 50-60 years? Carbohydrates. The food pyramid is based around grains, fruits, and vegetables and people are still fat and sick. I know from experience, as I used to be a fat brainwashed idiot eating that way.

Here's something to challenge your high cholesterol theory, because that is all it is - a theory.

The Benefits of High Cholesterol

Sorry, but Not much of an argument here. It's actually complete bullshit that our carbohydrate intake has increased over the last 50-60 years, Look how much vegetables we eat. 1 serving per day, and no fruit..ALL the rest is meat. By the way, The food pyramid has little significance. As i said before, The average american eats one serving of vegetables per day and no fruit. That doesn't really prove much to me, when Carbs come from Vegetables / fruits / other things. If anything our intake of carbohydrates has Decreased for the majority of the population, Aside from a select phew.

You try and tell me that a diet of fruits / vegetables / legumes / grains / nuts / dark leafy greens is bad for you. Please do enlighten me as to why I feel so amazing, And why My energy has seen a massive increase since I changed to this specific diet. Is there a scientific explanation for that? I think there just might be.

By the way..High cholesterol levels Relating to disease is not just a theory. Cholesterol levels have continued to rise at the same rate as disease, and meat intake. They are all connected.

Go find me a person with a cholesterol level under 150, and tell me If he ever gets sick very often. I know a couple of these people, and they are probably the most healthy people I've ever met In my entire life. I can't say the same for the average american, Who is fat, diseased and has a cholesterol level of over 210.

Again, do enlighten me as to how I've actually been losing weight on this diet..Instead of gaining it, Like You are trying to prove. I want you explain why My energy level has increased dramatically since I stopped eating meat.

 

[Cory_Pilfold]

Disease Proof: Are the Inuit Healthy?

This is a good article on the Inuit.

 

[Mathias]

Our vegetable fat consumption has NOT increased AT ALL! i don't know who told you this, or why you believe it..But as i said, the average american eats one serving of vegetables per day and no fruits. You're saying that we ate even less than that In the past?

Do you know what Margarine is? All vegetable fats. Do you know what has repaced butter in the last 50 years? MARGARINE. Do you know what most of the fats of in shitty processed food? Vegetable fats. Peanut oil. Soybean oil. Poly-6 unsat vegetable fats - the kind you want people to switch to. Natural animals fats like t-bones and ribeyes have been mostly replaced by leaner meats.

Also..It's complete bullshit that the average lifespan was in the 80's and the majority living in their late 90's. I have relatives in my family who are inuit, and they live off this diet. Believe me when I say they are the last thing you would consider healthy. It's possible they may have lived this long in the past, But if so..It's been a very long time since that has happened, If indeed is is true.

Considering Stef wrote this book in the 1930s after he lived with them for 18 years, that's about 80 years ago. And I highly doubt your relatives are eating an all meat diet in this day and age of civilization. There are barely any traditional primitive peoples left around the world besides maybe the Australian Aborigines.

 

[takeahnase]

The average American eats one serving of Vegetables per day, and no fruit. Are you really so sure about that one?

Our vegetable fat consumption has NOT increased AT ALL! i don't know who told you this, or why you believe it..But as i said, the average american eats one serving of vegetables per day and no fruits. You're saying that we ate even less than that In the past?

How about you actually look at the fucking link that styles posted.

^^^^
Actually in the 1900's to 1950's, our animal fat intake was higher than it is now because we would cook everything in animal fat.

While our animal fat intake has decreased, our poly-6's intake has increases so much that we are now consuming much more total fat now than we were 50-60 years ago.

Hmmm,

It looks like while meat consumption has increased (not as significantly as I thought) the increases has been mostly in chicken and fish.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/foodreview/jan2000/frjan2000b.pdf

 

[Cory_Pilfold]

Not vegetable fat from vegetables, the increase has come from cooking oils.

Oh i see, Yeah that is actually true..I don't agree with the amount of cooking oils being used. Most Upper level vegans don't even touch the stuff, So basically It's a stereotype that can only be fit to certain people revolving around a certain diet.

I think I still might eat meat for a while, We'll see..But after feeling the effects for myself over the past couple weeks, I really think I might just switch to this diet permanently. I've just seen a huge boost to my life as a whole, and everything that I do. Work, Training , Life, Health , Everything has just gotten so much better.

So again..What i believe has nothing to do with What i've researched in science, I would be believing the same things If i didn't know anything about the science backing it up. I've just felt the effects for myself, and that is more convincing than a piece of paper telling me what I need to eat.

I need to experience things in real life before I can believe them, Otherwise I would be in the exact same boat of everybody arguing against me.

 

[Mathias]

Anyways, I'm done here. We could argue this bullshit all day and it doesn't get anyone anywhere. I'll eat the way I do and you'll eat the way you do. Best of luck.

 

[Cory_Pilfold]

U can get out of attack mode guys, I agree with you..Our level of intake of vegetable oils has increased dramatically, It's not the best thing you can ingest into your body for sure. But then again, even the most healthy vegans know this information as well. You don't see them almost EVER using these kind of oils, and get what they need basically from Just plant based foods.

 

[takeahnase]

Disease Proof: Are the Inuit Healthy?

This is a good article on the Inuit.

The scientific article underlying the article you linked just shows that Inuit are dying quicker than they used to. I would be very surprised if the Inuit are eating more meat now than they used to.

Scand J Public Health. 2001 Mar;29(1):5-12.
Health expectancy in Greenland.
Iburg KM, Br