Cholesterol and Sat Fat

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by StrikerStatus, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. StrikerStatus Show me the data

    StrikerStatus
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    Cholesterol lowering, sudden cardiac death and mortality.
    De Lorgeril M, Salen P.

    Laboratoire TIMC IMAG CNRS UMR 5525, Groupe PRETA Coeur et Nutrition, Faculte de Medecine, La Tronche (Grenoble), France.

    Sudden cardiac death is the main cause of cardiac mortality. Is blood cholesterol a determinant of sudden cardiac death? Does cholesterol lowering result in fewer sudden cardiac deaths? Answering these two questions may shed a new light on the epidemiology of coronary heart disease and on prevention options. In fact, careful analysis of the available data, including randomised trials, indicates that, contrary to a widespread opinion, cholesterol lowering does not appear to be a very effective way of reducing cardiac and overall mortality in the general population.


    Cholesterol does not cause coronary heart disease in contrast to stress.
    Rosch PJ.

    Department of Medicine and Psychiatry, New York Medical College, Valhalla, New York, USA.

    The belief that coronary atherosclerosis is due to high cholesterol from increased saturated fat intake originated from experiments in herbivorous animals. It was reinforced by reports allegedly demonstrating this sequence of events in various populations but ignoring contradictory data. The idea has been perpetuated by powerful forces using similar tactics to preserve the profit and the reputations of those who promote this doctrine. Opponents find it difficult to publish their scientifically supported opinions. The advent of statins has further fuelled this fallacious lipid hypothesis, despite compelling evidence that their effect is not due to cholesterol lowering and that serious side effects have been suppressed and alleged benefits have been hyped. The adverse effects of the cholesterol campaign on health, quality of life, the economy and medical research are inestimable. It is imperative that public health officials, physicians and patients are apprised of proof that it is misguided, malicious and malignant.


    Although brief summaries thought they would be appreciated, I have been doing Paleo for a few months and recently started IF and found this. Makes me more confident in having my coconut milk.
     
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  2. Vedic Purple Belt

    Vedic
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    Geeee imagine that
     
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  3. Urban Savage Mystic

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    should I close it now... or do I wait for the "what does science know?" and "10% of the vegans I know eat right and are healthy so vegan is the best way to live" stupidity?
     
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  4. Vedic Purple Belt

    Vedic
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    Hell, ask Cory in a PM hahahaha
     
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  5. Mathias Blue Belt

    Mathias
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    You mean the lipid hypothesis still has not been proven after 50+ years? You'd think that before brainwashing the entire nation to do something they'd atleast prove their hypothesis first, right? 'Hypothesis' is only the beginning of the scientific method. The idiots behind the food pyramid were Nathan Pritikin and George McGovern, two devote animal rights activist vegetarians. Imagine that.
     
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  6. Mathias Blue Belt

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    This is a good book...

    The Cholesterol Myths


    Most of the evidence I've seen seems to support excessive insulin as the cause of Coronary heart disease.
     
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  7. stylesbjj** Banned

    stylesbjj**
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  8. Cory_Pilfold Guest

    Cory_Pilfold
    Vedic do you have a life? you can't even look at this evidence objectively when it agrees with everything I was saying about cholesterol and saturated fat..Being a major cause in disease.

    Again..guess where the cholesterol, and most of the saturated fat in our diet comes from? I got yellow belted for having a respectable opinion about this.
     
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  9. Cory_Pilfold Guest

    Cory_Pilfold
    btw from what I've seen of you vedic, I think we can all agree that you're just a big know it all.
     
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  10. MikeMartial Black Belt

    MikeMartial
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    Cory, your going to have to accept that the carbohydrate hypothesis of disease pathophysiology is just as valid, if not more so, than the lipid hypothesis. Both are still argued vehemently by supporters from both sides, but as it stands now, recent and well-controlled studies are blowing holes in Ancel Key's weak-ass hypothesis from the 50's. I highly suggest you read Taube's Good Calories, Bad Calories. The historical compilation of studies on the relation of diet, disease, and obesity is second to none.

    You cannot come in here day in and day out and expect people to believe science that has been proven faulty; if you continue to do this, you'll be banned.
     
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  11. Cory_Pilfold Guest

    Cory_Pilfold
    Mike, As you said..It's two sides arguing a point, you can't automatically pass one off as correct and the other WRONG. Sorry for my personal opinion on this, But Lowering of cholesterol and saturated fat intake..does actually lower the risk of contracting one of these diseases. I don't believe it's faulty science, They use some very vivid examples..and I have yet to see some serious examples done by the people arguing against me.

    Again, sorry for my personal opinion mike..I didn't know that we couldn't speak our minds.

    I'm done coming here any way. If i cant even argue my own opinion, then This isn't even a free country.
     
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  12. Cory_Pilfold Guest

    Cory_Pilfold
    I am even threatened To be banned just for posting an opinion about what I believe about cholesterol and saturated fat.

    If you guys would be willing to prove to me how exactly what I believe is faulty science. Lowering of cholesterol and saturated fat has actually been shown to reduce the risk in contracting various types of major diseases caused by this. Tests have been done on people confirming this, and I still have yet to see any tests or real life examples of those arguing against my point.

    Like i said..I'm gone..I don't think I'm coming back for a while, I don't know what Kind of world this is where I cant share an opinion About what I believe. I either get yellow belted or banned.
     
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  13. Vedic Purple Belt

    Vedic
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    Ummmm actually you can Cory, they do it every day in the modern world we live in:icon_lol:

    You can't speak your mind when it's bull shit.

    As for free country. Listen here little boy. Guys like me shoveled shit on all sorts of continents so little boys like you can run your mouth. You never told us your age, stats, education level etc, yet you talk of free speech:icon_lol: I'm waiting.
     
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  14. Cory_Pilfold Guest

    Cory_Pilfold
    Hypothetically by your definition, I have to be very experienced and have a college degree in order to have freedom of speech. I don't want to say that My way is right no matter what, But Both sides make some very good arguments is what I'll say. I don't think at this point, Either side can be Proven wrong. It would just be a long and difficult argument, and It would be basically pointless. Which is why we have to resort to real life examples that prove the argument of each side of the story. I understand respect the argument that you have, Of course it's a very good one. However, I have yet to see some real life examples that have been proven through tests on humans.

    You can understand Why I'm a little skeptical of this when It doesn't really have any Real life examples which I can divert to. On the other hand, I have seen diseases actually reversed or at least prevented by lowering the amount of cholesterol that is present in the blood stream. I've seen this with my own eyes.

    You have to understand I'm not trying to make you guys wrong, Or make myself right. That's not my intention, But I just need some real life examples and back up before I can side with everything you guys are claiming. I have had the exact same belief system as all of you my whole life, but I just need real life examples..and that's when I will be able to get on board with scientific theories or other things.
     
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  15. Mathias Blue Belt

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    Here's some real life examples - traditional people who consume high fat diets without the degenerative diseases we have today.

    Weston Price: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration; Table of Contents


    EDIT: note - check out the Eskimo, American indian, and African tribes chapters. People who consume only meat and some milk for the masaai.
     
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  16. vegan Orange Belt

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    I have been reading up some more on this subject and it seems to be alot of facts that support what is said here. at least about the strats not working.
    and instead of high cholesterol as the big reason for heart failurs it is small ldl that is a big problem. possible small hdl also as it dosn't cleans out arteris as good.

    also high insulin as a problem is reinforced by a diet high on fat. the liver doesn't handle insulin as effektiv if the body needs to take care of excessive fat.

    about eskimos living on one diet, it doesn't necessarily mean you would live well on it. groups of people that had time to evolve handle diets differently. japanese for example easely gets fat on a traditional american diet that contains alot of suggar and fat.

    so still vegans win ;-)
     
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  17. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    anaconda
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    japanese people get fat on a diet that contains lots of sugar and fat....so vegans win?

    Lol who doesnt get fat on a diet with a lot of sugar and fat?
     
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  18. stylesbjj** Banned

    stylesbjj**
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    You use pubmed to find the latest studies, right? If so, how do you work the search? Whenever I try to work it, the results are full of studies I'm not interested in, such as this captain obvious study:
    The impact of a population-based multi-factorial l...[Prev Med. 2008] - PubMed Result

    Anyways, I don't think its a legit reason to ban Cory for believing what he believes. About 90% of the population believes the same thing Cory believes, and many top medical/nutritional professional still pass off the lipid hypothesis. I know its frustrating, but if the Harvard school of public health advocates that saturated fats are bad and believes in the research that saturated fats are bad, you can't really blame the guy despite evidence. I don't believe in the lipid hypothesis, but there are studies supporting it Fats and Cholesterol: Out with the Bad, In with the Good - What Should You Eat? - The Nutrition Source - Harvard School of Public Health, despite the flaws of the studies, its good enough for people at the top nutritional positions.

    Also, its healthy for people hear from the other side. I learn a lot from the discussions from Cory and Vedic. I don't want to base my opinions just by listening to the best evidence from the guys who know the truth, I also want to know exactly what the other side is arguing and why so many people in top nutritional positions believe in that. Hearing directly what the lipid -hypothesis people argue isn't the same as hearing about what the lipid-hypothesis people from the anti-lipid hypothesis.
     
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  19. Mathias Blue Belt

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    So, are you saying that we've evolved to eat a vegan diet? because I didn't see any traditional peoples on that page that were vegans. They all had one thing in common - a quest for animal fat. Veganism has only become popular in the past century or so, certainly as civilizations and populations have risen. Interestingly, the more agriculture foods we have consumed, the greater the population has gotten out of control.
     
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  20. Mathias Blue Belt

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