Chiesa: I fought the best grapplers @LW, they all had my back in round 1...

Towerworld said:
You're daft as hell.
It does not matter if it was punches specifically, if it were the same situation with elbows instead of punches would those words now be irrelevant?
Cutting off circulation to your opponents brain via blood choke causes trauma and impairs the victim just like strikes to the head do. In this case the choke brought Cheisa to the point where he was no longer making an effective effort to defend himself which gave Mario the hint that he was no longer fit to continue the fight.
This was the exact equivalent of stopping a fight by TKO rather then letting the fighter be KO'd, it was meant to spare cheisa from unnecessary trauma once he was no longer fighting. Its honestly sad that you're unable to understand such simple things.

Mario has the experience, the knowledge,expertise,training and the authority to judge when a fighter is no longer fit to continue the fight while you are a braindead bum in his mom's basement with no effective argument.

You are claiming that Mario made a mistake according to the rules, tell me which rule he broke.

EDIT: it also isn't as black and white as you say here's another quote from McCarthy

"Have I ever had a fighter scream out in a pain and I stopped the fight? Yes. Jeremy Stephens did it against Din Thomas. As soon as I stopped it, he said, "I didn't tap," and I said, "Yes, you did. What did I tell you in the back?"

We go over in the back, I tell them, if you scream out on a submission in pain, it is the same as tapping out. You're asking me to stop the fight. It's going to happen. The fight's over, you're going to lose."

Stephens did not actually tap, but he showed distress by screaming and John stopped the contest.
In this fight Cheisa showed his distress by his inactivity and unresponsiveness.
Click to expand...


Showed distress by inactivity and unresponsiveness? You're even dumber than I thought.
Seriously, let's just create some idiotic theories just for trying to prove your point.

Also, describing me all the awful consequences of passing out due to a choke (completely messing up with different processes, BTW - but I don't expect from you to have a slight understanding in anatomy, internet hero) - it's all nice, but in this case, answer one simple question: Why are all these cruel referees let the fighters pass out and do not stop the fights beforehand?
Because you will not be able to find one other single example of the fight, where the referee stopped the submission attempt to "intelligently defend".
This is simply not how MMA works. How it's supposed to work.

Or, maybe, you think that genius Yamasaki has just made a breakthrough act and from now on referees will stopped fights before the fighter taps or passes out?
Either you have no MMA knowledge and you argue just for the sake of arguing, or you're delusional.
Probably both.
 
AimedWithV said:
Showed distress by inactivity and unresponsiveness? You're even dumber than I thought.
Seriously, let's just create some idiotic theories just for trying to prove your point.

Also, describing me all the awful consequences of passing out due to a choke (completely messing up with different processes, BTW - but I don't expect from you to have a slight understanding in anatomy, internet hero) - it's all nice, but in this case, answer one simple question: Why are all these cruel referees let the fighters pass out and do not stop the fights beforehand?
Because you will not be able to find one other single example of the fight, where the referee stopped the submission attempt to "intelligently defend".
This is simply not how MMA works. How it's supposed to work.

Or, maybe, you think that genius Yamasaki has just made a breakthrough act and from now on referees will stopped fights before the fighter taps or passes out?
Either you have no MMA knowledge and you argue just for the sake of arguing, or you're delusional.
Probably both.
Click to expand...
You're retarded, if anyone is still in the fight and able to continue they will fight the choke they will defend themselves.
Which processes have I messed up doctor?
Don't be stupid read the last quote, McCarthy stopped the Jeremy Stevens fight when it appeared that he quit and wanted out of the fight.

You claimed Kawasaki broke one of the rules show me which one he broke.
 
Muay Thai #1 said:
Already posted this in another thread but damn, this really makes me think the choke was not as bad as it looked.
(No pressure on the left side of Chiesa's neck, hands aren't fully locked, Lee's back jammed up against the cage, forearm on the windpipe...which sucks but wont make you tap)
There is a lot of wiggle room there. It's just one pic but I'm pretty sure it was from just before the stoppage.
usa_today_10131686.1498449818.jpg
Click to expand...
#StillPhotos
 
Muay Thai #1 said:
Already posted this in another thread but damn, this really makes me think the choke was not as bad as it looked.
(No pressure on the left side of Chiesa's neck, hands aren't fully locked, Lee's back jammed up against the cage, forearm on the windpipe...which sucks but wont make you tap)
There is a lot of wiggle room there. It's just one pic but I'm pretty sure it was from just before the stoppage.
usa_today_10131686.1498449818.jpg
Click to expand...

This was mid adjustment, this wasn't the choke. Kevin's elbow is posted so that his other arm can slip through deeper.

Below is the real choke
michael_chiesa_choked_out_kevin_lee.0.jpg
 
Tuf_guy said:
Come on bro. Everybody who tranes knows about "possum hands". He was about 3 seconds from escaping and securing mount based on the gif.
Click to expand...

He was faking the nap. Guess he didn't learn from Chael vs Anderson 1 that those tactics don't work.
 
120wrestling said:
This was mid adjustment, this wasn't the choke. Kevin's elbow is posted so that his other arm can slip through deeper.

Below is the real choke
michael_chiesa_choked_out_kevin_lee.0.jpg
Click to expand...
I already commented on this picture... and this shows that while it is tighter, the left side of Chiesa's neck is still not receiving direct pressure.
 
Italian Brock said:
The choke wasn't as bad as shertards think .. chiesa most likely felt lee's arms giving out , plus the choke wasn't locked in that great and he triangle wasn't correct either .. chiesa was playing possum and was about to attempt to burst out of it. Either way= we all lose
Click to expand...

Shut up dawg, the choke was tight. That image the user above posted was mid transition as Lee was switching grips and had his elbow posted.

michael_chiesa_choked_out_kevin_lee.0.jpg
 
At the end he was turned so that you couldn't really see Lee's hands anymore, so it may not have been as tight as it seemed. Either way it was a bad stoppage. Most likely he doesn't get out, but with 23 seconds left, maybe he does enough to survive. We'll never know, which is why it was a bad stoppage.

Also, that 12-6 elbow that Lee dropped on the top of Chiesa's head was a bad miss by Yamasaki as well. He was staring right at it, and nothing.

I think Lee would have won anyway, but we missed out on possibly a few more good rounds. He looked much better in that whole round. Chiesa is also a grinder, so who knows, maybe he would have picked it up as the fight went. Either way, Yamasaki should join Mazzagatti on the UFC ban list.
 
Towerworld said:
Yes it is, reffs are supposed to stop the fight before the fighter passes out to prevent unnecessary damage Cheisa was no longer intelligently defending himself which indicated to Mario that he wasn't fit to continue.
Click to expand...
Get the fuck out of here. What unnecessary damage?
 
120wrestling said:
Cause you're a dipshit, go follow this link and you'll see just how tight the RNC was. Since sherdog doesn't allow getty image embedding
Click to expand...
Dude, I'm trying to not make you look stupid.

Lee was using raw strength to muscle out the choke, there isn't direct pressure on both sides of Chiesa's carotid arteries. The pressure is on the right and center of Chiesa's neck. He very well been able to muscle it out and force the tap. But Chiesa was not completely dead to rights. Lee is also trying to able pressure with his head and right shoulder, which isn't nearly as powerful as pressing in with his chest.

You see a pic and say its over. When you have actually done this shit you see openings to survive and get out.
 
It was over guys. Stop making excuses. His hands were by his waist and it was lights out any second. If it was someone else he'd have tapped.
 
Seems a lot of people don't remember Bendo vs Cerrone 1. You don't stop a fight because a choke looks in.
 
Lee is a nit wit but he owned Chiesa on the ground, beat his head in and got him in a rnc, that was inpressive. Must be tough for Chiesa that he got owned in his own discipline after getting punched at the weigh ins. He must save face. With that said, he did pop up fast.
 
FacePlantingPro said:
Show me in the rule books where it says that.
Click to expand...
Literally in the rule book
  1. Submission by:
    1. Physical Tap Out
    2. Verbal Tap Out
Limp body technically falls into the category of no longer able to compete. Nothing about "the ref sees no possible way out".
 
AimedWithV said:
Chokes outcome are supposed to be either tap or nap.
"No real defense" is not a reason to stop a fight in this case.
Click to expand...

Well that's good because he stopped the fight due to the tap that we all can clearly see in the clip, not from "no defense" as you put it.

Not defending and moving your hand in a tapping manner gets the fight stopped everytime. Rightfully so.
 
2GunTommy said:
Well that's good because he stopped the fight due to the tap that we all can clearly see in the clip, not from "no defense" as you put it.

Not defending and moving your hand in a tapping manner gets the fight stopped everytime. Rightfully so.
Click to expand...

Dana White and BJM disagree with you.
 
Stop the crying Mike you were in a bad position Kevin didn't stop the fight, the ref did. If you weren't body locked and backlatched with a forearm braced under your neck the fight wouldn't have been stopped.

And before I catch any hate I had Mike in that fight, I just don't like whining & bitching...

44840-1252025.png
 
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